View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:21 pm Post subject: Signed up for my first trumpet lesson in more than 40 years |
|
|
I did some research on instructors in the area, and picked the one that looks like the best match for what I consider to be an accomplished player. I didn't research to the point of stalking anybody, but I did some deep googling.
I'm a little interested in how others might pick an instructor. Given there are so many players and instructors here who follow different pedagogical approaches, how do others pick their own instructors? For instance, do you ask them whether they take the Claude Gordon approach or it they strictly stick to the Stevens-Costello? What if you don't actually know what is right for you?
I'm figuring I might not click with this guy, or he might not like me. How do people actually search for and find an instructor they will gel with? _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
|
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would first figure out what ~I~ wanted.
Then shop around with that in mind. BTW, don't be overcome with internet information. There are plenty of players/teachers who don't conveniently fall within a particular "school".
Ask here with specifics, call local music establishments and talk to the teacher directly, being frank. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
|
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can their students play? _________________ Bill Bergren |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kehaulani wrote: | I would first figure out what ~I~ wanted.
Then shop around with that in mind. BTW, don't be overcome with internet information. There are plenty of players/teachers who don't conveniently fall within a particular "school".
Ask ere with specifics, call local music establishments and talk to the teacher directly, being frank. |
Thanks, good advice. I think I know what I want at this point, but I know from other endeavors goals change with time.
Billy B wrote: |
Can their students play? |
I'm sure they can play better than me. _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
|
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A lot depends on the personalities involved ...
Analytic approach to teaching
Questions and answers
Do it my way
Lets see what works for you
etc.. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
|
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To the OP.
BillyB is an accomplished player and has years of teaching experience.
What he is asking you is how good are his other students? Whether or not they are better than you is moot.
How have they progressed under this teacher? Do they (have they) followed a good procedure and are they improving in a noticeable manner?
The world is full of teachers who can't teach but have lots of students.
Hopefully, your teacher is a good one and will help you immediately.
R. Tomasek |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JayKosta wrote: | A lot depends on the personalities involved ...
Analytic approach to teaching
Questions and answers
Do it my way
Lets see what works for you
etc.. |
This all sounds right to me. Thanks!
Vin DiBona wrote: |
How have they progressed under this teacher? Do they (have they) followed a good procedure and are they improving in a noticeable manner?
The world is full of teachers who can't teach but have lots of students. |
Thanks for the elaboration. Conciseness is an attribute in some places, but just pisses the **** out of people in others. _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2047 Location: USA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 1:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: | How do people actually search for and find an instructor they will gel with? |
Taking lessons is a great idea!
First, you need to think about your goals and look for someone who can realistically help you achieve them. The local symphony player may not be the best match if your goal is to do small group jazz improv (but even then solid fundamentals are the foundation for success in any style). On the other hand, if your goal is to join a community orchestra you want someone who knows the rep, how to transpose well, etc.
Second, don't sweat the pedagogy too much. Adam, Caruso, Cichowicz, Gordon, Reinhardt, Shew, Stamp, Thibaud...different schools of thought that have all produced many fine players. And many fine teachers are not purists; they sample from more than one to find what works for them and their students.
Third, good communication is essential. You know what your goals are, time available to practice, etc., and can convey them honestly and clearly. Is the instructor listening to you, and is he/she equally clear with you?
Good luck! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dayton wrote: | Quote: | How do people actually search for and find an instructor they will gel with? |
Taking lessons is a great idea!
First, you need to think about your goals and look for someone who can realistically help you achieve them. The local symphony player may not be the best match if your goal is to do small group jazz improv (but even then solid fundamentals are the foundation for success in any style). On the other hand, if your goal is to join a community orchestra you want someone who knows the rep, how to transpose well, etc.
Second, don't sweat the pedagogy too much. Adam, Caruso, Cichowicz, Gordon, Reinhardt, Shew, Stamp, Thibaud...different schools of thought that have all produced many fine players. And many fine teachers are not purists; they sample from more than one to find what works for them and their students.
Third, good communication is essential. You know what your goals are, time available to practice, etc., and can convey them honestly and clearly. Is the instructor listening to you, and is he/she equally clear with you?
Good luck! |
Thanks! _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5682 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't worry too much about the instructor - if they can play, then they have a pretty good idea of what they did to get there, and the fundamentals of playing trumpet are not rocket science. Most of a player's playing deficiencies can be easily diagnosed and fixed with focused practice on the things needed to improve them.
Where it might matter is if you have legitimate chops problems where practicing the normal fundamentals are no longer helping - that might require something else.
At this point you're an adult - trust what your instructor says, and get to work on the things they tell you to work on. You'll know pretty quickly if the personality thing may or may not work out, but the material shouldn't change too much - we all go through the same kinds of things. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
trickg wrote: | I wouldn't worry too much about the instructor - if they can play, then they have a pretty good idea of what they did to get there, and the fundamentals of playing trumpet are not rocket science. Most of a player's playing deficiencies can be easily diagnosed and fixed with focused practice on the things needed to improve them.
Where it might matter is if you have legitimate chops problems where practicing the normal fundamentals are no longer helping - that might require something else.
At this point you're an adult - trust what your instructor says, and get to work on the things they tell you to work on. You'll know pretty quickly if the personality thing may or may not work out, but the material shouldn't change too much - we all go through the same kinds of things. |
Thanks. I don't think I have any serious technical issues. I can make the sounds I want when I want to make them. I do think it's worthwhile to get a sanity check. though. My biggest issue as far as I am concerned is I'm at the "see spot run" level of sightreading music. I seem to remember being at least a little better than that in the way distant past. That needs a lot of work, but I think it's my work to do. _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5682 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
ebolton wrote: | Thanks. I don't think I have any serious technical issues. I can make the sounds I want when I want to make them. I do think it's worthwhile to get a sanity check. though. My biggest issue as far as I am concerned is I'm at the "see spot run" level of sight-reading music. I seem to remember being at least a little better than that in the way distant past. That needs a lot of work, but I think it's my work to do. |
Sight-reading is one of those things that for me has always been a kind of "use it or lose it" thing. When I started playing in a big band in the early 2000s, I was coming off of an 18 month playing hiatus, and it had been nearly 10 years since I'd actively played in a big band. I distinctly remember how challenging it was reading those figures and it took a bit before my reading skills tightened back up.
I've never been a great sight reader though - the only thing that really helps me with that is just doing it, and putting myself in situations where I have to sight read.
You may find at some point down the road that this instructor won't click with you. The trick is going to be to find an instructor who not only assigns you the work, but who also has a way of inspiring you to work on it. Work without inspiration is drudgery, and I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, if playing trumpet and making music wasn't fun and fulfilling, I wouldn't do it at all. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I first started up playing again almost twelve years ago, after a long (over 25 years) hiatus. I'm sure this depends a lot of on age, what you were used to before your comeback, etc., but one thing that really caught me by surprise when I started taking private lessons from some local pros to try and get my legs back under me again, was how much 'modern' lessons differed from those when I was younger.
After spending a few weeks paying the going rate for an hour lesson, only to be told "Oh wow, you sound amazing, just keep doing what you're doing," even though I know quite well that my chops were a wreck and I sounded like garbage, I realized that there was far too much of the "protect their self-esteem and keep them motivated so they'll come back for more" thing going on.
I didn't seek 13th place trophies, or a world when every contestant gets a "Superior" rating, anything of that sort.
I had to tell private teachers that I didn't want to be told I was amazing when I wasn't. I wanted (and needed) an honest assessment of what I was doing, right or wrong, and some help figuring out how to address the shortcomings.
Suddenly, I went from paying $$$ to have smoke blown up my backside, to getting good feedback on how to improve. I didn't ask to be insulted, like that ridiculous Whiplash movie, I just didn't want to be lied to. I saw no point in paying money to be told nothing was wrong, when it clearly was.
Perhaps something to keep in mind, should it be an issue in your own journey. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RandyTX wrote: | ...
I had to tell private teachers that I didn't want to be told I was amazing when I wasn't. I wanted (and needed) an honest assessment of what I was doing, right or wrong, and some help figuring out how to address the shortcomings. ...
|
Thanks. I appreciate what you wrote. I'm looking for the exact same thing. I'm bad enough so I don't think anybody will try to persuade me otherwise, but I'll keep my eyes out for it. _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When took my first lessons I was in my 30s. I was playing at a local Jr College and all the players who played like I wanted to all studied with the same guy so that's where I went. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
|
Back to top |
|
|
royjohn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 2272 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
|
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Few things from my personal experience. I spent a lot of time after my comeback in my 50's wandering around trying various techniques...Stevens-Costello, Callet superchops, Balanced Embouchure. None of them worked well for me...I quite by accident ended up with a Reinhardt inspired teacher for three or four extended lessons... about ten hours total. My embouchure problems were solved and it looked like only some practice stood between me and an embouchure capable of double C's. At that point, due to some abdominal hernias, I stopped playing intensively and shifted to tuba, where the Reinhardt stuff still was helpful. When I can lose enough weight to have surgery, maybe I'll be back at the trumpet...
I see a lot of folks talking about how many years it takes to progress from high F to high G and I think that's an embouchure problem, in my experience. If the embouchure placement is right, progressing in range and power should be relatively easy.
That said, in any teacher-student relationship, it isn't choosing the teacher that is difficult, it is deciding whether to keep them. I had a well recommended teacher at one point before my Reinhardt experience, but I couldn't stand him after about three lessons. Know when to cut your losses and try out somebody new. They have to know what to teach you and also how to reach you. If they don't, no matter how good they are, you need to find somebody else. _________________ royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
chieden and royjohn, thanks for sharing those experiences. _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bnbechtel Regular Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2021 Posts: 66 Location: US
|
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Signed up for my first trumpet lesson in more than 40 ye |
|
|
ebolton wrote: |
I'm figuring I might not click with this guy, or he might not like me. How do people actually search for and find an instructor they will gel with? |
I just recently started looking. I found a guy who is a multi-instrumentalist, and found a clip of him playing, and he had great tone. So I sent him an e-mail. Unfortunately, I haven't heard back yet and it's been a week.
That's a bummer. He seemed like he would make a great instructor for me.
This reminds me, though. I will send out some emails when I have the chance today. I just started back not even three weeks ago, and I want to fix problems before they start, and get an honest opinion on how I can improve my tone.
The one thing I don't want is what I had growing up -- a teacher solely focused on classical and classical tone.
I play improv on my own recordings, and not in a group (probably not until I get much better) and people seem to like it. So I feel like I'm heading in a good direction.
I do want a lesson here and there, though. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ebolton Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Feb 2021 Posts: 123 Location: New Hampshire, USA
|
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, he had a bit to teach me. He agreed I was concentrating on the correct stuff. He pointed out something I hadn't noticed when I slur down, and showed me how to correct it, and when I emulated him it sounded way better. I'll sign up for another lesson in the future. It was rather awesome to play with another person after so many years. _________________ -Ed |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5682 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
|
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ebolton wrote: | Well, he had a bit to teach me. He agreed I was concentrating on the correct stuff. He pointed out something I hadn't noticed when I slur down, and showed me how to correct it, and when I emulated him it sounded way better. I'll sign up for another lesson in the future. It was rather awesome to play with another person after so many years. |
I'm bumping this thread - I'm curious to see if you've made some progress in the time since you last posted. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|