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HoosierBrass Regular Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2021 Posts: 22
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:26 pm Post subject: oiling valves via slides |
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I have always oiled my valves the conventional way (unscrewing the top cap, pull valve out, oil the piston). I never oil through the bottom caps. However I never thought to use the corresponding valve slide to oil the valves. Never occurred to me for whatever reason, but now that I have seen it done it makes sense that it is quicker and easier and I would guess less chance of causing an issues (dropping valve, rotating/misaligning valve, etc.). Is there any downside to oiling the valves that way? Does it maybe not get spread out as much as with the conventional way? Other concerns with this method? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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A little confused. How do you use your valve slide to oil the valve? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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wiemelen Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 455 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | A little confused. How do you use your valve slide to oil the valve? |
I just poor a few drops of oil into my mouthpiece receiver.
Then just start playing and don't use my spitvalves for about 5m.
After a minute of playing, the oil has reached the valves.
I learned this trick from some pro players and it works great.
Only condition is that you keep you trumpet (leadpipe until valveblock) clean.
But on the other hand, when you have a clean leadpipe, the oil you run through it (even those few drops) will also prevent dirt from sticking to the leadpipe. _________________ Trumpet : Yamaha YTR-9335CHS + Yamaha YTR-6335H
Trumpet mouthpieces : Lotus 2L (main) + Lotus 2L2
Flugelhorn : Kanstul 1525 with Curry 1,5FL
Cornet : Conn 80a (1919) with Curry 1,5 BBC + Curry 1,5 VC + GR L66,9 #6 |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: oiling valves via slides |
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HoosierBrass wrote: | Is there any downside to oiling the valves that way? |
I've seen people do it. If it works for you, that's great. But I doubt it works all that well. I wonder why someone would spend 30 seconds doing a job poorly, when it only takes 60 seconds to do it right.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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omelet Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 245
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Oiling through slides - downside could be dropping your slide while you do it, and for slides that have stops, then you have to remove the stop.
I wouldn't worry about it spreading out. A very small amount of oil is needed to cover the area between the piston and the casing, and it will spread by itself.
Oiling through the leadpipe is not the best way, since you are coating a whole lot more in oil that doesn't need to be lubed (non moving parts). Plus if you swab the leadpipe each day then that oil just goes on the rag.
I don't see a problem with oiling from the bottom, other than the nibs for the bottles usually not fitting in there, and not being able to see how much you are using. I question any belief that it will wash residue from the cap to the valves and impact the valve movement. Pull a cap off and see if you can wash residue from the cap with a couple drops of oil. Again, there is an extremely small clearance for the valves which will not allow that stuff in there. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3306 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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omelet wrote: | ... I wouldn't worry about it spreading out. A very small amount of oil is needed to cover the area between the piston and the casing, and it will spread by itself. ... |
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Correct - no need to completely remove the piston from the casing.
Just unscrew the top valve cap and lift the piston enough to place a drop or two of oil on the contact surface - the oil will creep via capillary action around the entire contact surface. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2655 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Alternate methods equals not enough oil getting to the valves. Or even worse, the oil carries other "stuff" onto the valves. Best way? Take the valves out, hold them over a trash can, oil them completely and put them back.
Only exception, when you are in a super hurry between songs. Pull them halfway out and oil. _________________ Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1409 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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omelet wrote: | Oiling through slides - downside could be dropping your slide while you do it, |
The only dent in my 35 year old Strad (which I just gave to my grandson) is in the 3rd valve "dump" slide, sustained when I removed it to empty water. _________________ Craig Mitchell |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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I rarely need to oil my valves during a session. So there normally is no hurry when doing so.
And as someone earlier pointed out my third valves all have retainers. On the Bb and pic the first has a trigger. The flugelhorn has a trigger on the third.
Thus on my horns there is basically only the second crook that is quickly/easily removable. |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I was told by a tech that the downside might be you could wash any crud or excess slide grease into the valve casing.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8335 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: oiling valves via slides |
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Brad361 wrote: | I was told by a tech that the downside might be you could wash any crud or excess slide grease into the valve casing. |
Exactly.
TrumpetMD wrote: | I wonder why someone would spend 30 seconds doing a job poorly, when it only takes 60 seconds to do it right. |
No kidding.
Richard III wrote: | Alternate methods equals not enough oil getting to the valves. Or even worse, the oil carries other "stuff" onto the valves. Best way? Take the valves out, hold them over a trash can, oil them completely and put them back.
Only exception, when you are in a super hurry between songs. Pull them halfway out and oil. |
Spot on. Exactly what I do and have done for .... my entire playing career. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: oiling valves via slides |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | Richard III wrote: | Alternate methods equals not enough oil getting to the valves. Or even worse, the oil carries other "stuff" onto the valves. Best way? Take the valves out, hold them over a trash can, oil them completely and put them back.
Only exception, when you are in a super hurry between songs. Pull them halfway out and oil. |
Spot on. Exactly what I do and have done for .... my entire playing career. |
I already drag enough stuff on gigs that I really don't want to carry a trash can along just to oil my valves. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Long time ago, I was shown to just squirt a bunch of valve oil in the leadpipe and, while wiggling your valves, then blow vigorously until a bunch comes out the bell. It not only oils your valves but evidently protects the insides.
I've done this for a very long time on many horns as my primary way of oiling my horn and have seldom needed to oil my valves separately, nor have I ever had red rot.
Just a tip, if you do that, put something on the floor or be slob-ish. . _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn
Last edited by kehaulani on Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wiemelen Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2007 Posts: 455 Location: Belgium
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:43 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Long time ago, I was shown to just squirt a bunch of valve oil in the leadpipe and then blow vigorously until a bunch comes out the bell. It not only oils your valves but evidently protects the insides.
I've done this for a very long time on many horns as my primary way of oiling my horn and have seldom needed to oil my valves separately, nor have I ever had red rot.
Just a tip, if you do that, put something on the floor or be slob-ish. . |
Exactly how I do it, like indicated in an earlier post.
Just some oil every other week down the leadpipe and it comes out of the bell after some playing.
When it comes out of the bell, it's also a good indication that your trumpet is clean inside.
When cleaning my instrument 2 or 3 times a year, the water is almost as clean before as after the bath, except for the oil on top.
However it helps to have the discipline to not eat just before or during playing and only drink water before and during playing.
I've seen colleague trumpet players (and other instruments too) eating just before or during rehearsals, drinking beer or drinks with lots of sugar. I know for a fact this trick does not work on their instruments _________________ Trumpet : Yamaha YTR-9335CHS + Yamaha YTR-6335H
Trumpet mouthpieces : Lotus 2L (main) + Lotus 2L2
Flugelhorn : Kanstul 1525 with Curry 1,5FL
Cornet : Conn 80a (1919) with Curry 1,5 BBC + Curry 1,5 VC + GR L66,9 #6 |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:38 am Post subject: |
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[quote="wiemelen"] kehaulani wrote: | …..
However it helps to have the discipline to not eat just before or during playing and only drink water before and during playing.
I've seen colleague trumpet players (and other instruments too) eating just before or during rehearsals, drinking beer or drinks with lots of sugar. I know for a fact this trick does not work on their instruments |
Exactly. I’m the only guy in my band who doesn’t eat the “band meal” on break for private party gigs. I’m so used to that that I feel very uncomfortable if I try to play on a full stomach.
But my horns are CLEAN.😎
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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ECLtmpt2 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2021 Posts: 147
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I have seen players pull the 2nd valve crook and oil from there and a few just shoot the lube down the leadpipe. I used to sometimes drop oil into the bottom of the valves but one of my instructors told me not to do that. Same reason as mentioned, possibly move junk into the valve. ? who knows?
Recently I've been more careful on top-sprung valves to get the oil below the felt. On my bottom sprung horns I do take them out and then oil only the valve over a rag or wastebasket.
I'm not sure what is the best way but oiling my valves before playing is just part of the practice/playing session. I do keep a toothbrush, floss, and a flask with mouthwash, yes-only mouthwash, in my mute bag in case I've had something to eat earlier. Rinse with water and I'm ready to go.
I remember my high-school case had a smell that just wouldn't quit. We had 1st lunch and then practiced during the other lunch periods. My cases don't smell like that anymore! |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8335 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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ECLtmpt2 wrote: | I have seen players pull the 2nd valve crook and oil from there and a few just shoot the lube down the leadpipe. I used to sometimes drop oil into the bottom of the valves but one of my instructors told me not to do that. Same reason as mentioned, possibly move junk into the valve. ? who knows?
Recently I've been more careful on top-sprung valves to get the oil below the felt. On my bottom sprung horns I do take them out and then oil only the valve over a rag or wastebasket.
I'm not sure what is the best way |
Just because others do it doesn't mean that it's the best way or that they have a clue.
The best way is to oil the valves directly. Take the valves partly or fully out and oil the actual surface of the valve and not the stem. This is the only answer.
The other methods might have some supposed side benefits - maybe oil down the leadpipe is good for corrosion or something. But, there is no way that oiling through the leadpipe or the bottom of the caps or the second slide or whatever is better for actually lubricating the pistons. It might be faster, it might be less effort, it might supposedly have some marginal corrosion thing, it might work fine for some players, but it's not better for actual valve action than doing it directly. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Finn, nothing succeeds like success. Been oiling primarily through the leadpipe for a good half century with no problems. I'm not meaning to discourage anyone from direct application but . . just sayin'. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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omelet Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Posts: 245
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: |
Just because others do it doesn't mean that it's the best way or that they have a clue.
The best way is to oil the valves directly. Take the valves partly or fully out and oil the actual surface of the valve and not the stem. This is the only answer.
The other methods might have some supposed side benefits - maybe oil down the leadpipe is good for corrosion or something. But, there is no way that oiling through the leadpipe or the bottom of the caps or the second slide or whatever is better for actually lubricating the pistons. It might be faster, it might be less effort, it might supposedly have some marginal corrosion thing, it might work fine for some players, but it's not better for actual valve action than doing it directly. |
If the method used gets oil on the pistons, then it lubricates the pistons. Putting it directly on the piston doesn't lubricate it any better, so no, it isn't the only answer. If I can get the same outcome with less time or effort then I would prefer to do that. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12664 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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omelet wrote: | Crazy Finn wrote: |
Just because others do it doesn't mean that it's the best way or that they have a clue.
The best way is to oil the valves directly. Take the valves partly or fully out and oil the actual surface of the valve and not the stem. This is the only answer.
The other methods might have some supposed side benefits - maybe oil down the leadpipe is good for corrosion or something. But, there is no way that oiling through the leadpipe or the bottom of the caps or the second slide or whatever is better for actually lubricating the pistons. It might be faster, it might be less effort, it might supposedly have some marginal corrosion thing, it might work fine for some players, but it's not better for actual valve action than doing it directly. |
If the method used gets oil on the pistons, then it lubricates the pistons. Putting it directly on the piston doesn't lubricate it any better, so no, it isn't the only answer. If I can get the same outcome with less time or effort then I would prefer to do that. |
Oiling from the bottom, slides or leadpipe won’t get oil on the top area of the piston. Perhaps some as the piston dips to the area the oil is coming out of, but since gravity pulls the oil downwards certainly not as much as putting the oil onto the piston itself.
Will it be enough? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Why take a chance? |
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