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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:40 am Post subject: Schilke B2 |
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Hello guys, I just won a Schilke SCHILKE B2 in very good price and I wonder how it plays and feel , so until I get it I want to hear your expiriance with this horn.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs
Last edited by giakara on Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Well I recommend that you don't read any responses to this thread.
When the horn arrives, check it out, get everything in order, and just play it yourself.
If you listen to a bunch of opinions, when you first play the horn, you will hear and feel what you have been told and are thus expecting to hear and feel. (Read R.Dale Olson's Sensory Evaluation of Brass Musical Instruments) You need to approach the horn without bias to get a real feel for how it fits you. If you contaminate your perspective, it could be months before you realize how you really interact with it. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2041 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Congratulations! The B2 is a lot of fun. I used mine for several concerts in the park this summer. Terrific focus and projection. Enjoy your new horn.
Last edited by Dayton on Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Guys sorry I apologize, the auto correct of my phone had make his miracle again.... the horn is a B2 and not a B5.
I got this horn because of the price and because of the shape of the bell and the configuration that is close to my favorite horn the Lawler TL5-1A but I read that the B2 is a step bore horn and thats why I ask about the blow , anyway this is also my first Schilke horn and I am very curious about it.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:15 am Post subject: |
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The B2 was Schilke's second design. The B1 was patterned after a Martin Committee with some improvements and refinements in aesthetics. The B2 and B3 both have Schilke's #3 bell, which was patterned after a French Besson. This bell is smaller by volume than the #1 bell, but with the standard 5" flare, it's still fairly large compared to Bach designs. Of the #3 bell models, the B3 was most famously used by Bud Herseth, and the #3 bell is also used on the Faddis S43HD model. An ML bore block with the #3 bell should make a great combination suitable for nearly every musical situation. Enjoy your horn! Schilkes are under-appreciated gems in the world of trumpet. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the infos but I am a little confused, is this horn ML or a step bore horn like Shew horn for example?
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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F.E. Olds Nut Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Mar 2010 Posts: 343 Location: Detroit
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I had a B2 several years ago. It projected well but for me it was way too bright, compared to the B1 I was playing at the time _________________ Del Quadro "The Mother"
Last edited by F.E. Olds Nut on Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: |
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F.E. Olds Nut wrote: | I had a B2 several years ago. It project well but foe me it was way too bright, compared to the B1 I was playing at the time |
This is good for me because I prefer the bright horns , do you now about the bore ? I just read at Schilke site that is a ML horn but I read at several sites that is a step bore .
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:01 am Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | Thanks for the infos but I am a little confused, is this horn ML or a step bore horn like Shew horn for example?
Regards |
It's ML through the valve section, so people call it an ML horn. Schilke's don't really have a constant bore size, since Reynold changed up the dimensions of the inner tubes according to his experiments with improving intonation. For example, a B7 has a .463" tuning slide, .454" valve bows, .450" valve slides, and a .463" bell tail. The bore expands and contracts according to Schilke's design. Some other "step bore" horns just have a tuning slide with a small bore top tube and medium bore bottom tube going into an ML bore valve block. I'm not sure what the exact nomenclature is for these, although poly-bore and step-bore are probably fine. A Schilke is a Schilke, you can't compare it to something like a Bach using specs alone. |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Goby wrote: | giakara wrote: | Thanks for the infos but I am a little confused, is this horn ML or a step bore horn like Shew horn for example?
Regards |
It's ML through the valve section, so people call it an ML horn. Schilke's don't really have a constant bore size, since Reynold changed up the dimensions of the inner tubes according to his experiments with improving intonation. For example, a B7 has a .463" tuning slide, .454" valve bows, .450" valve slides, and a .463" bell tail. The bore expands and contracts according to Schilke's design. Some other "step bore" horns just have a tuning slide with a small bore top tube and medium bore bottom tube going into an ML bore valve block. I'm not sure what the exact nomenclature is for these, although poly-bore and step-bore are probably fine. A Schilke is a Schilke, you can't compare it to something like a Bach using specs alone. |
Ok got it , I must wait to try it , if i remember well the Schilke horns has a problem with other brands mpcs, do you now what size of Reeves sleeve it fits to the B series reciver?
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Well I recommend that you don't read any responses to this thread. . . If you listen to a bunch of opinions, when you first play the horn, you will hear and feel what you have been told and are thus expecting to hear and feel. You need to approach the horn without bias to get a real feel for how it fits you. . |
I see your advice was just blown right by, LOL. But, IMO, this nails it right on the head. The Placebo Effect, for sure. I've always wondered why people buy a horn, first, and then ask about it. (But I have to admit I've fallen victim to that all too often, hearing what other people say you're hearing.)
"The B1 was patterned after a Martin Committee "
FWIW, I talked with a representative at Schilke and was told that the B-7 was the closest to a Committee.
Ref. "I heard" about the mpc. adaptabolity, I have used Reeves/Purviances mocs on a B-1 and a B-7 and had no problem. I casually also used other mpcs on the horns with no problem. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 652
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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The B7 and B1 both have the #1 bell, which is shaped like a committee bell. The B7 is closer to a medium bore committee due to the medium bore block that Schilke uses on it.
I think schilkes are built to have a smaller gap than Bach or Benge. If you have a sleeve system mouthpiece, why not try out the different sizes and see what works best? |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I was going to duck this topic, but WTH....
Schilke did build on the past as he moved forward in his career. Every new design leveraged prior experience, and often design elements. That does not make a Committee a Llewellyn, or a B7 a Committee though.
Certainly Schilke did take some elements of the Holton Llewellyn to the Martin Committee - you can feel it when you play them side by side even before examining them in detail - and ironically none of the elements of the Holton 48s (any of the 5 forms over the years) that are often called a "poor mans Committee". The Holton 48 and 45 designs were created by Arvid Walters who, while 5 years older, apprenticed alongside Schilke at Holton in the 20s (though he also started at 14, so was the more experienced of the 2) By the time TJ Getzen moved on to start his company and Walters moved into design responsibility, Martin was selling the Committee.
The Schilke B series draws on Holton heritage in the form of some influence on the aforementioned bell (another being influenced by Benge with the B2 being Schilke's take on a better Besson) that resonates a bit like a Committee, but many of the more core features of the B series horns actually have their roots in the obscure Holton Revelation Don Berry, not the Llewellyn. To that is added two influences from Waters' design for the 45 and 48, the tuning slide geometry pioneered on the short-lived Holton Gustat, and the multi-inflexion leadpipe pioneered on the first 48, which became an obsession of Schilkes (perhaps it already was before he left Holton - the two certainly seemed to think alike in that regard).
The evolution of significant models is never simple. Many pieces come together and making them fit requires real innovation. These horns stand on their own. Any link to prior art is more inspiration than specification. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20
Last edited by OldSchoolEuph on Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 722 Location: Rhode Island, USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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"... if i remember well the Schilke horns has a problem with other brands mpcs..."
Regards[/quote]
Don't know where you heard that. I have four Schilke instruments that accept my GR, Denis Wick, and Curry mouthpieces just fine. _________________ Richard Ashmore
I am a Mechanical Engineer and have many years of Social Distancing experience. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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It's from that old, reliable source, "I heard . . . " _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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giakara Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 3832 Location: Greece
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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I had friend professional player that use play for more than 35 years Schilkes and when I give him a cut for sleeves Reeves mpc to try it with a bunch of sleeves he took me on the phone and told me that his horns are never play like that before , unfortunately this guy is dead and I can't ask him , this is my reliable source....a real pro musician.
As for the placebo phenom it probably works with amateur musicians and weekend warriors but not on me , I make my living with a trumpet on my hands the last 32 years in the commercial field and i now if the horn works for me from the first blow.
Thanks for the real useful information.
Regards _________________ Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1925 Location: WI
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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F.E. Olds Nut wrote: | Despite my username, I play Schilke instruments... |
You need to meet CalicchioMan and Yamahaguy. |
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david johnson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2002 Posts: 1616 Location: arkansas/missouri
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Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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The step-bore (Schilke called mine a poly-bore) is different than I expected. Mine is a C7. To me, it feels like a larger bore. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:26 am Post subject: |
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giakara wrote: | As for the placebo phenom it probably works with amateur musicians and weekend warriors but not on me , I make my living with a trumpet on my hands the last 32 years in the commercial field and i now if the horn works for me from the first blow. |
It is a shame that the long discussion on this topic that happened on Mark Metzler's back porch in the summer of 2017 was not recorded. There was quite the assemblage of restorers, collectors, designers and performers there that night, key among them, Dale Olson. If you stop to think about it, the musically aware poor player has a much better chance of avoiding bias than the highly skilled professional. With the high skill level, comes a habit of making small compensations subconsciously. This means that quirks go un-noticed initially, which can mask what does not conform to expectation. Weak players have to work at those adaptions and thus have a better chance of realizing something is not aligning with expectation.
Approaching a horn with an open mind, zero expectation of what will ensue, takes deliberate mental effort every time. If you do not actually take a moment to focus yourself on eliminating all expectation, as a skilled player, you will alter the outcome without even realizing it. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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