Valve Oil Choice

[Phoenix864]

There seem to be lots of these questions as of late - I haven't been crazy about any of the oils I've recently tried (EcoPro Bearing oil, UltraPure Regular/Classic, Hetmans 2) and am looking to try a new oil.

With each of the oils I've used, the 2nd valve on my horn (Carrol Brass monel block) feels a bit sticky/friction-ey. There's a bit more stickiness when pressing down at the top of the valve and the travel doesn't feel quite as smooth as 1 and 3. That said, the valve's practical function is not impaired, only the feel. I've had the horn checked by a tech, but they didn't see any problems with the valve. 1 and 3 feel fine, nothing amazing but pretty smooth and friction-free both up and down.

The oils also seem to not stick to the valves well (or I'm just over-applying). I apply about 4 drops per valve every other day or so, but it feels like oil residue is constantly coming out with the water when using the water keys.

I've heard lots of great things about the EcoPro oils, but wasn't crazy about the bearing oil (got it during the free oil promotion, Monster accidentally sent the wrong one but confirmed it should be fine on valves). After about a month after cleaning, all thee valves would occasionally have a gummy/sticky upstroke, slow enough to affect usability. It would go away after cleaning only to return again a month later. The oil was otherwise fine, very similar to Hetman 2 and UltraPure Regular.

UltraPure Regular and Hetman 2 were similar - same smoothness, and neither had problems with gummy valves. UltraPure Classic seemed to be slightly smoother, while not making the valves much slower. The additional stickiness on the 2nd valve remained, though.

I'm considering BERP Bio Oil, the Yamaha synthetic oil, and light or heavy EcoPro valve oil, though additional recommendations would be welcome. The valves are less than a year old and should be very tight, but I'm wondering if I would appreciate the additional smoothness from a heavier oil. I would like to just get the valves to feel uniformly smooth - I'm not a stickler for super-fast valves. Any advice would be much appreciated.

[Richard III]

[Lawler Bb]

Try Zaja or 5-Starr. The La Tromba that came with my CarolBrass works great, too.
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[Monster Oil]

[Dayton]

You mention cleaning in your post, but it is worth stressing. Start by giving your entire horn, including the valves and casings, a thorough cleaning.

The horns I have played with the CarolBrass valve block -- Larson, most recently -- all needed regular to light-weight valve oil. My recollection is that Hetman, Monster and Ultra Pure all worked fine.

One way that might help you figure out what you need is to move your first and third valve slides without depressing the valve. Is it easy to move the slides when the proper valve is not depressed? After you try to move the slide and then press the valve, is there a pop, or more of a sigh? Not a fully reliable method, but the easier it is to move the slides without depressing the valves, and the more of a sigh you get vice a pop when you do press the valve, the more likely it is that your valves are worn and you need to try a heavier weight valve oil (but not a bearing oil).

Also, just to make sure you are not accidentally creating the problem, try a slide lubricant made by the same company that makes your valve oil. That may be a hassle, but it will minimize the likelihood that the slide lubricant and the valve oil are not "agreeing" with one another.

If you are following these steps and still having a problem, you most likely have an issue with your horn, not with the oil you have chosen. Take your horn -- the trumpet, not just the valve -- to a good repair technician, explain what you've done, and explain the problem you are still having.

Good luck!

[Andy Cooper]

Try swapping your second valve guide and spring with your third guide and spring. Some "feel" problems are caused by problems with a guide and spring. Note - switching valve guide may lead to a change in your rotational valve alignment so mark one of the guides with a felt marker.

Be sure you are cleaning your valve casing with something like cheese cloth and a cleaning rod with dish detergent. Casing brushes are not enough.

For chronic valve sticking, try La Tromba 1 or Denis Wick with silicone or teflon.

[kehaulani]

Unless one is allergic to something in a valve oil, I wonder if a lot of this isn't in one's head.

I used a combination of Three-in-One Oil and kerosine for years without a problem. I used it mainly on a K-modified Selmer, Conn Constellation and a Getzen Severinson and "It didn't hurt me none".

Quin the Eskimo's shop uses B.E.R.P. and, on their recommendation, I've begun using it, coming from Hetman. BERP lasts longer and I have noticed no degradation of effectiveness.

But regardless, I've never noticed a significant difference in various name=brand oil's effectiveness.
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Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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Adams F-1 Flghn

[plankowner110]

To the OP,
Your problem appears to be a mechanical one, not oil, that can be easily fixed by a skilled repair tech. Such action problems on 2nd valves is very, very common.
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https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

[Phoenix864]

Though I'd post a follow-up, for anyone who finds this in the future. Monster Oil very generously sent me two bottles of their Lite Eco Pro valve oil. I gave my horn a full cleaning and switched over to it. After using it for a month, I've been very happy with the performance of the oil - the valves feel noticeably lighter than when I was using UltraPure Classic, but feel a bit slicker/smoother than when I was using UltraPure Regular or Light (not slower, just smoother overall valve travel). The Monster Oil also seems to stick to the piston/casing a bit better.

I've also noticed that the spit/condensation from the horn is much clearer/less oily than when I used other oils. Hetman was really bad about this, with it coloring the horn's spit bright yellow. UltraPure didn't color the spit, but the condensation felt oily. The Monster oil hasn't caused either effect.

Overall, I've very happy with the oil and plan to continue using it.

Regarding possible mechanical problems, I took the horn to a different tech to have it checked out. Everything looks alright - the valve isn't rubbing on the 2nd valve slide, the casing is true, and there aren't any significant wear outliers on the piston to indicate notable contact with the casing. At the end of the day, it looks like this CarolBrass valveset just isn't quite as smooth as the other Carol valveset I have.

[cgooding]

I’ve been using Tech-Oil for about a year now. Hands down the best oil I’ve ever used. Two drops about every three weeks and valves are smooth.
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"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams."

[giakara]

I use La tromba T2 special for my Getzen valves horns and T1 or T3 my vintage horns the last 20 years and never had a problem , great products.

Regards
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Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
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Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
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[Halflip]

[dstpt]

I am one week into trying Pro Elite Oil, which I mentioned in this TH thread last week with an update just now...

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160547

[zaferis]

I'm thinking that there is something mechanical going on - the same oil on 3 valves, 2 work, 1 doesn't - not the oil.

Start with a chem or sonic clean, pay attention to your hand possition (it's possible that you're tugging on the valve enough to cause issues). Then if the problem still exists get a top valve tech to work on it. (this kind of issue one cannot "see". A valve lapping/rebuild might be in order.
Some times a pig is a pig - I had a Yamaha Flugel that had a similar valve issue. After all sorts of approaches to remedy the situation if became apparent that it was just a bad valve. I replaced the instrument-problem solved.

my top oils:
5 Starr - fast and long lasting (my current favorite)
La Tromba T2
Ultra Pure pro - silky smooth long lasting - great slide lubes of various thicknesses - for CarolBrass I think the Ultra Pure-Ultra Light would be an excellent choice (Classic is thicker - for old or low tolerance valves)

One oddity with oils - I find that Ultra Pure works better and longer when I'm working musicals in a pit. For some reason, my experience, is that it picks up less of the stage dust during the show.
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[AndyDavids]

While I really like Hetman's right now, I have used Ultra-Pure and 5-Starr with varying levels of satisfaction.
Mainly I can tell a slight difference on separate horns, not that I have all that many.

[JHirakawa]

I'm a Chemical Engineer and have followed the advancements made with synthetic lubricants over the years. I would suggest sticking with a synthetic oil with an established reputation. It's always the safest way to go. The good brands are consistent, and they continually try to improve their products. Hetman makes very good products. There are other good brands too. I would try Hetman 1 if your valve doesn't like No. 2. I had a Schilke once that needed Hetman 1. I will probably switch to Yamaha when I run out of Hetman. Yamaha Corp does everything right when it comes to musical instruments. Never use anything that isn't specifically engineered for a trumpet.
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Benge flugel
Olds, DEG Bugles

[Shaft]

Yamaha vintage on the older horns I have works great.

[adc]

Berp. Its (IMO) the best.
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Too many Old Cornets to Count

[TJTS]

I am a huge fan of Ultra-Pure oils personally. The quality is excellent and the different viscosities allow you to leverage the oil that is best suited for your horn. Their different weights of slide lube also come in handy especially with vintage horns.

Regardless of what type of oil you use (synthetic, petroleum, bio, etc) make sure you perform a deep clean on your horn when switching types. If you don't, your valves will stick and feel gummy.

Michael @ The Jazz Trumpet Store

[Shews Blues]