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ecafdrib Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:59 am Post subject: Famous cats playing a C trumpet |
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I went on-line yesterday and did some research and was surprised how little I found. I wanted to find which famous trumpeters played a C trumpet.
I know C is usually used for orchestra or more of a brass choir arrangement. But, that being said, was there a famous trumpeter who only used a C trumpet?
I couldn't find any. Now, I am sure that as some of the greats were starting out, like Louis Armstrong and many others, they may have learned on a C trumpet or maybe due to funds, that was their first trumpet by chance.
I am talking about a famous, established trumpeter, who chooses to play a C instead of a Bb.
Thanks,
~Arty _________________ Trumpets are very much like jerks, they sound the best when they are muted.
______________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C2LJ_M0q8&list=PLtEjClG65CHKqJWUHEkssH9uVS8wD6opd |
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Nonprokingdom Regular Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2021 Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Louis Armstrong started on a C cornet? Never knew this.
Which other greats started on C instruments due to low funds? Bb cornets/trumpets where more much common, particularly in America. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9088 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:40 am Post subject: |
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Didn't you answer your own question? All major symphony players in the U.S. play Cs. That's a lot.
If you're asking about popular music players, they (mostly) learned and played in school band, Bbs. Aside from convenience, there is a tonal difference.
Evidently, most popular music players would rather stick with what they know, and they prefer the Bb's tonal characteristics. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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ecafdrib Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Nonprokingdom wrote: | Louis Armstrong started on a C cornet? Never knew this.
Which other greats started on C instruments due to low funds? Bb cornets/trumpets where more much common, particularly in America. |
If you look closely you will see that I did not state he started on a C cornet. In fact, I was supposing that perhaps that was the case, but I am more interested in finding out if any big time, trumpet players were known for playing a C trumpet. I don't claim to know the answer, hence, why I asked it.
Kind Thanks,
~Arty _________________ Trumpets are very much like jerks, they sound the best when they are muted.
______________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C2LJ_M0q8&list=PLtEjClG65CHKqJWUHEkssH9uVS8wD6opd
Last edited by ecafdrib on Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ecafdrib Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Didn't you answer your own question? All major symphony players in the U.S. play Cs. That's a lot.
If you're asking about popular music players, they (mostly) learned and played in school band, Bbs. Aside from convenience, there is a tonal difference.
Evidently, most popular music players would rather stick with what they know, and they prefer the Bb's tonal characteristics. |
Thanks for your response. I did not give the answer to my own question. I want to know if there are any professional players that anyone knows of that only play a C trumpet. This way I can go to YouTube and watch how they play.
As a Student of trumpet, I would find this to be a learning experience. If you don't know of any by name, that's OK. It might be that there aren't many.
Regards,
~Arty _________________ Trumpets are very much like jerks, they sound the best when they are muted.
______________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C2LJ_M0q8&list=PLtEjClG65CHKqJWUHEkssH9uVS8wD6opd |
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Pege New Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2021 Posts: 4 Location: Uk
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Hi!
I think the answer is plenty of players, or none, depending on how you think of it
Classical players, both orchestral or soloist are going to pick the trumpet that fits the repertoire, I can't think of any that stick to one horn for everything.
So, for example, alot of French solo repertoire will fitl sit better on the C trumpet. You could look for those recordings which will likely be on a C.
One interesting exception to my statement about the choice being made by the repertoire is Hakan Hardenberger. He's commissioning enough new stuff where he could probably play whatever he wants. He mostly plays on (I believe) a C trumpet. |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5698 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Famous cats playing a C trumpet |
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ecafdrib wrote: | I went on-line yesterday and did some research and was surprised how little I found. I wanted to find which famous trumpeters played a C trumpet.
I know C is usually used for orchestra or more of a brass choir arrangement. But, that being said, was there a famous trumpeter who only used a C trumpet?
I couldn't find any. Now, I am sure that as some of the greats were starting out, like Louis Armstrong and many others, they may have learned on a C trumpet or maybe due to funds, that was their first trumpet by chance.
I am talking about a famous, established trumpeter, who chooses to play a C instead of a Bb.
Thanks,
~Arty |
It's my understanding that you are a fairly new trumpet player, coming to trumpet from playing guitar.
Just some food for thought - one "can" go down a rabbit hole of information online. There's all kinds of information a person can find and try to assimilate, but the real question you should be asking at this point is whether or not you should.
In general terms, the C trumpet is mostly used by orchestral players - you "might" find some other players using something other than a Bb, but generally speaking, even if you find some guy playing C trumpet on non-orchestral music, at your stage of development on the instrument, will you really even know what you're looking at?
As a new player, your best bet would be to work towards developing your playing on Bb, and if you do choose to try to glean things from watching players on YouTube, you're going to be much better served by finding guys playing on a Bb - there are more famous Bb players than you can shake a stick at:
Doc Severinsen
Maynard Ferguson
Harry James
Allen Vizzutti
James Morrison
Dizzy Gillespie
Arturo Sandoval
Sergei Nakariakov
Wyton Marsalis
Etc.
The list is too large and diverse to even attempt to fully list when it comes to Bb players, so why in the world are you specifically looking players, other than orchestral players - who play on a C trumpet?
I can't tell you the number of trumpet players I know who don't even own a C trumpet, and never have. The ONLY reason I have one is because I started playing in a regional orchestra. I had one back in the early 90s, sold it because I wasn't using it, and then went a couple of decades where I didn't even own one.
At your level, you'll be much better served sticking to all things Bb IMO. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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ecafdrib Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, everyone for the responses.
Yes, I am new at the trumpet. Therefore, many of my questions may reflect that I am new at the trumpet.
I am getting the impression, by everyone's very direct remarks, that jazz cats and professional soloists almost never choose to play a C trumpet.
Thanks again for the kind replies
~Arty _________________ Trumpets are very much like jerks, they sound the best when they are muted.
______________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C2LJ_M0q8&list=PLtEjClG65CHKqJWUHEkssH9uVS8wD6opd |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9088 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:47 am Post subject: |
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ecafdrib wrote: | that . . professional soloists almost never choose to play a C trumpet. |
Arty, please watch your vocabulary. The players in classical orchestras are professionals and can be soloists. You mean "non-classical" or "Commercial" or "Popular Music" trumpeters. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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JGulyas Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2002 Posts: 726 Location: Roanoke, VA
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:55 am Post subject: |
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ecafdrib wrote: | Thanks, everyone for the responses.
Yes, I am new at the trumpet. Therefore, many of my questions may reflect that I am new at the trumpet.
I am getting the impression, by everyone's very direct remarks, that jazz cats and professional soloists almost never choose to play a C trumpet.
Thanks again for the kind replies
~Arty |
Arty,
I'm not aware of any pro jazz or commercial cats who use a C as their main axe (that doesn't mean there aren't any, though, but you'll probably have a tough time finding any). Pretty much everyone in those genres stick to a Bb and just transposes the chords, etc. from there. I'm pretty sure a lot of the big time commercial guys have a C for certain studio sessions but other than that it's all about the Bb.
You'll have some of us legit weenies who, at one time, may not have even owned a Bb and did everything on C, myself included, but that's just because at the time I had less use for a Bb than I did a piccolo or Eb/D/F/G. _________________ All the Best,
John
US Navy Bandsman 1996-2010 (Trumpet; Audio Engineer)
Mpc - Kanstul/Monette B6, Hammond Design custom "JG"
Bb - Yamaha 6335HGSII
C - Eastman ETR530
Picc - NoName Chinese |
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ecafdrib Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:00 am Post subject: |
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JGulyas wrote: | ecafdrib wrote: | Thanks, everyone for the responses.
Yes, I am new at the trumpet. Therefore, many of my questions may reflect that I am new at the trumpet.
I am getting the impression, by everyone's very direct remarks, that jazz cats and professional soloists almost never choose to play a C trumpet.
Thanks again for the kind replies
~Arty |
Arty,
I'm not aware of any pro jazz or commercial cats who use a C as their main axe (that doesn't mean there aren't any, though, but you'll probably have a tough time finding any). Pretty much everyone in those genres stick to a Bb and just transposes the chords, etc. from there. I'm pretty sure a lot of the big time commercial guys have a C for certain studio sessions but other than that it's all about the Bb.
You'll have some of us legit weenies who, at one time, may not have even owned a Bb and did everything on C, myself included, but that's just because at the time I had less use for a Bb than I did a piccolo or Eb/D/F/G. |
Thank you! _________________ Trumpets are very much like jerks, they sound the best when they are muted.
______________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C2LJ_M0q8&list=PLtEjClG65CHKqJWUHEkssH9uVS8wD6opd |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2095 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: |
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The only wind players in jazz that I can think of are Juan Tizol on C valve trombone and Frankie Trumbauer on C melody sax. I can’t think of anyone else in the jazz world.
Classical players will, as has been stated before, choose their weapon based on various circumstances.
In fact I just watched this today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOOOjRrOia0 and as you can see the trumpet section uses a mixture of Bb and C trumpets.
I am told that a lot of people in France actually start on C but don’t know if this is true. Most of what Alison Balsom and Tine Thing Helseth play seems to be on C as well.
Come to think of it: studio musicians or people doing musicals and the like may use a C as well. Or so I have read someplace, maybe on TH _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, (Frate or Curry) |
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cgaiii Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1560 Location: Virginia USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:09 am Post subject: |
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There are a number of soloists, mostly classical that seem to prefer C trumpet when playing the "large" horn. Tine Ting Helseth is one. I remember an interview with Alison Balsom where she indicated she had pretty much abandoned the Bb for the C. Not sure, but I believe Hardenberger plays primarily on a C.
If we are confining ourselves to jazz here, then is it a totally different matter, but these are soloists that seem to prefer C trumpet. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Bb Cornet: Getzen 800 DLXS
Pic: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Std
Bass Tr: BAC Custom
Nat. Tr: Nikolai Mänttäri Morales Haas replica |
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claf Regular Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2017 Posts: 49
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | I am told that a lot of people in France actually start on C but don’t know if this is true. |
In France, everyone starts on a Bb.
It's only after a few years that those who choose to do superior studies in trumpet that they are told to buy a C trumpet.
In professional (or very good amateurs) classical orchestras, the C trumpet is a must. Apart from that, I think everyone plays a Bb. _________________ Bb: Schagerl James Morrison, Van Laar B7
C: Bach Philadelphia |
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peanuts56 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2021 Posts: 238
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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I believe Lee Loughnane of Chicago used a C trumpet on the recording of the solo in Ballet For A Girl In Buchannon.
If my memory is intact Lee has a classical background from his college days. I've always liked his sound. |
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ecafdrib Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | The only wind players in jazz that I can think of are Juan Tizol on C valve trombone and Frankie Trumbauer on C melody sax. I can’t think of anyone else in the jazz world.
Classical players will, as has been stated before, choose their weapon based on various circumstances.
In fact I just watched this today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOOOjRrOia0 and as you can see the trumpet section uses a mixture of Bb and C trumpets.
I am told that a lot of people in France actually start on C but don’t know if this is true. Most of what Alison Balsom and Tine Thing Helseth play seems to be on C as well.
Come to think of it: studio musicians or people doing musicals and the like may use a C as well. Or so I have read someplace, maybe on TH |
I checked out Tine Thing Helseth, she is good. From my research she bounces around from Bb to C and to others as well.
Very smooth sound she has _________________ Trumpets are very much like jerks, they sound the best when they are muted.
______________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C2LJ_M0q8&list=PLtEjClG65CHKqJWUHEkssH9uVS8wD6opd |
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trickg Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002 Posts: 5698 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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ecafdrib wrote: | I checked out Tine Thing Helseth, she is good. From my research she bounces around from Bb to C and to others as well.
Very smooth sound she has |
She's an all-around fine trumpet player and has the resume to back it up. For her, she's going to play whatever trumpet is appropriate for the repertoire - I've seen her play a lot of Eb/D and pic for her classical and Baroque recordings.
Classical soloists tend to play a lot of smaller horns - not necessarily C, but again, whatever the repertoire calls for. You "can" play the Neruda on a Bb, but it lays best on an Eb. _________________ Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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y-o-y Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2009 Posts: 129 Location: LBC
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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He said cats. All I see listed here are people. TBH, I don't know of any cats that play trumpet at all, regardless of the instrument's key. |
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ecafdrib Regular Member
Joined: 06 Dec 2021 Posts: 48 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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y-o-y wrote: | He said cats. All I see listed here are people. TBH, I don't know of any cats that play trumpet at all, regardless of the instrument's key. |
hahahahahah
love it _________________ Trumpets are very much like jerks, they sound the best when they are muted.
______________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8C2LJ_M0q8&list=PLtEjClG65CHKqJWUHEkssH9uVS8wD6opd |
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Pege New Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2021 Posts: 4 Location: Uk
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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y-o-y wrote: | He said cats. All I see listed here are people. TBH, I don't know of any cats that play trumpet at all, regardless of the instrument's key. |
You, my friend, urgently need to watch the Aristocats.
Cat Anderson never played C trumpet afaik |
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