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trumpet56 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:48 pm Post subject: Schilke F/G 3 valve trumpet |
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I recently purchased one of these little trumpets. All is well except for middle G (G2) which is noticeably sharp. Has anybody else had this issue? I can correct it with 1&3 with a little help from the 3rd valve throw. |
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trompette229 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 203
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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I know this is likely obvious but you never know. Did it come with 2 sets of slides? If the first slide were too long (say the F slide on the G horn) the open G would seem relatively sharp. Just making sure as I haven’t encountered the sharp G. |
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Robert1 Regular Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2018 Posts: 23
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Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have owned a Schilke G/F for probably 15 years. It's a very sweet little trumpet. I bought it because I always liked Rolf Smedvig's playing on the one he had. To me, mouthpiece selection is a bit more critical when it comes to intonation on these, compared to bigger trumpets. Perhaps you might have the chance to try a few different mouthpieces and can find one that is optimal on that trumpet. For example, I ended up using a slightly larger mouthpiece than my piccolo trumpet mouthpiece when I play the Schilke G. Better pitch. |
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tubbs831 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 981 Location: Massachusetts/New Hampshire
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:36 am Post subject: |
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My Schilke G1L has the same sharp G, at least on the G side of the horn, which is what I use most often (with the “big” G bell). I also bought this horn because of Rolf Smedvig. I’m currently using a 7D 25 throat/117 backbore. The larger throat seems to give me a little bit more wiggle room but I have on occasion resorted to using 1-3. I did have a valve alignment done but it didn’t fix the middle G issue.
Adam |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Scott Laskey once told me that there was an alteration to the entrance of the mouthpiece throat that can address this issue, but of course he didn't elaborate further. Perhaps the current mouthpiece person at Schilke has access to this...
HTH
Ben |
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trumpet56 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:31 am Post subject: |
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trompette229 wrote: | I know this is likely obvious but you never know. Did it come with 2 sets of slides? If the first slide were too long (say the F slide on the G horn) the open G would seem relatively sharp. Just making sure as I haven’t encountered the sharp G. |
Yes the trumpet came with 2 sets of slides. I assume that the smaller set is for the G side but I guess I could try the larger ones? |
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Jon Kaplan Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 300 Location: Charlotte, NC
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a Schilke G1L but rather a Yamaha 9710 G/F tunable bell that I love dearly and use ALL THE TIME. The middle G is definitely sharp and also the low C is flat (completely independent of any valve combinations) - I suspect (but have no hard evidence) that it has something to do with the length of the leadpipe and the location of the nodal points on these short little instruments potentially being within the valve section itself with all it's little curves.
I agree with everything that has been said so far about mouthpiece selection - that has been the trickiest part of playing this particular key of instrument easily. Depending on the context, I have used my actual piccolo mouthpiece (a Yamaha 11A5), a "large" picc piece (Parke 620 rim, Bach 10.5C, 27 throat, 117 backbore), and even sometimes a Parke 640-270-24 with an M backbore especially if I'm using the F side in a brass quintet context. None of these is a perfect fit but they all have their moments for this "in between" instrument.
A final thought is to consider somehow customizing the first valve to be tunable. The discrepancy between the kick needed for most first valve/12 combo notes vs. the 4th line D is massive and frustrating if you don't have a way to correct the slide length on the fly. On the picc that difference is still noticable but minimized due to the shorter overall length. I personally had a 1st valve trigger installed by Scott Sweeney, in Raleigh, NC that has really helped things a lot and made the instrument usable in a wider variety of contexts. _________________ 2nd Trumpet, Charlotte Symphony Orchestra
2nd Trumpet, Central City Opera Orchestra |
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trompette229 Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 203
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Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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trumpet56 wrote: | trompette229 wrote: | I know this is likely obvious but you never know. Did it come with 2 sets of slides? If the first slide were too long (say the F slide on the G horn) the open G would seem relatively sharp. Just making sure as I haven’t encountered the sharp G. |
Yes the trumpet came with 2 sets of slides. I assume that the smaller set is for the G side but I guess I could try the larger ones? |
Yes, shorter sets for G. At least you can rule that out. As others stated, mouthpiece selection may at least minimize the issue. Good luck |
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tubbs831 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 981 Location: Massachusetts/New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:02 am Post subject: |
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benlewis wrote: | Scott Laskey once told me that there was an alteration to the entrance of the mouthpiece throat that can address this issue, but of course he didn't elaborate further. Perhaps the current mouthpiece person at Schilke has access to this...
HTH
Ben |
Would love to know if anyone has any more knowledge about this! |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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To the best of my recollection, he described it as "softening" the entrance of the throat; but I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it. Sorry I don't have any more information. I no longer have a G1-L and I let the mouthpiece go with the horn.
I don't notice the tendency in my Blackburn A/G four-valve horn. It would be interesting to a-b a Schilke three-valve and four-valve G and see if the tuning anomalies are the same. Of course, the Blackburn is still mouthpiece-sensitive. I have to use a cornet shank with a GR #41XE adapter to get the horn up to pitch; but I tend on the low side anyway...
HTH
Ben |
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cbumcrot New Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2013 Posts: 10 Location: NJ/NY
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:51 pm Post subject: f/g pitch |
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Wow... this is all very interesting. I have a Yammie f/g and it plays great - no real pitch problems. The G side is probably a little better than the F. I use my picc mp, Bach 7D 25 throat 117 backbore CORNET mp (picc is a Schilke)... and of course a cornet to trumpet adapter to the Yamaha. That may have solved some of the issues described here and would certainly "soften" the entrance as Laskey described (maybe.... shot in the dark here). On the F side I may use a 5 or something similar....depends on the lit. |
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cbumcrot New Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2013 Posts: 10 Location: NJ/NY
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Actually... i just realized that my Bach 7D cornet (picc) mp DOES HAVE A SLIGHTLY ENLARGED VENTURI to the backbore. John Stork suggested I do it when I had the mp altered with throat and backbore (that was YEARS ago hence I forgot about it). Trying to figure out how to post an image of it... you can just see the metal taken out in a slight V shape. Completely forgot it was there. |
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chrisroyal Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2015 Posts: 25 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:00 am Post subject: |
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I’m using the G1L on the F side in orchestra. Can get a big sound by using Parke 640-285-24 orchestral. (My normal rim is the 650.) The deeper cup and larger backbore seem to help pitch issues. I’m using the horn like a C.
At one point I had the wrong 2nd valve slide in (the slightly shorter one for G trumpet.) it did make the chromatic scale more even, but top line F# (high concert B) was a little sharp.
I would also recommend experimenting with swapping the slides. The open horn series is the main tuning reference. If something is off intonation wise, first make sure open notes are tuned and then swap of the slides. It wont hurt anything to mix the slides from different keys.
For example, the E bell uses the same slides from the F bell. There is wiggle room built in. _________________ Bach Bb and C trumpets
Schilke Bb, C, Eb, E, F , G and Picc
Schilke Bb, C, Eb cornets
Schagerl Bb, C and Picc rotors
Yamaha and Schilke Flugels |
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nltrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2019 Posts: 206 Location: Washington DC
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Since this thread is active again, I saw a video of Rolf playing this same horn in a performance. He was using 1-3 a lot for G in the staff. |
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