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giakara
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Joined: 13 Jul 2003
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Location: Greece
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:19 pm Post subject: Mpc for 1927 Conn 81A Victor |
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Hello guys , I finally had send my Conn 81A for valve restoration and very soon I will start to play this horn in my trad jazz band, until now I have never play it outside home and I used with success some of my vintage Purviance mpcs and it also works great with a vintage Parduba double cup .
My question is if anyone had use this horn from that era with modern mpcs and how it works , I am not interest about short shank deep V pieces , I want to now about long shank mpcs and trad jazz settings.
Also if someone nows what kind of mpc use on his 80A players like Andy Schumm , I saw a video with Jim Cullum that he use a Schilke with his Conn 81A but I am not sure .
Regards
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| What sort of mouthpiece ID diameter are you used to - or what models of the Parduba and Purviance do you play? |
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giakara
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Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 3833
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I try it with a pair of vintage Purviance(original)5☆3 and one 4☆3 and it plays great , intonation is ok and the sound perfect but unfortunately I can't use then since I play now 43W rim and it feels small to me , the Parduba is a vintage ☆7☆ that is also ok and the size it close to my 43W but I am not sure if I can play it in a real gig , I must try it more because of double cup.
Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 and 800 LB cornets
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1853
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| giakara wrote: | I try it with a pair of vintage Purviance(original)5☆3 and one 4☆3 and it plays great , intonation is ok and the sound perfect but unfortunately I can't use then since I play now 43W rim and it feels small to me , the Parduba is a vintage ☆7☆ that is also ok and the size it close to my 43W but I am not sure if I can play it in a real gig , I must try it more because of double cup.
Regards |
Is there a reason you don't want to just use a Reeves with a different cup and the 43W rim?
I don't think you would be happy with any of the Schilke stock rims - maybe the 17D4 but it's kind of deep with a #26 throat. If you played smaller rims, I would suggest the 10B4.
Consider the Bach 3CW. The cup is nothing like the 3C. It's a comfortable rim but would feel larger that the standard Reeves 43 - not sure about the 43W.
My experience with the large bore Conn cornets - for extended playing they work better with slightly tighter backbores like the Warburton 6, 5, 4KT. I liked them with "M" style Reeve cups or Warburton "M" or "SV". Those combinations position the sound closer to a trumpet - but not quite. |
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giakara
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Joined: 13 Jul 2003
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Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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No particular reason to not use my 43WS mpc but I am not sure if the modern shank fits to this horn and i never try it but I will do when the horn comes back.
Recently I tried a Trumpet Schilke 15A4 and it was surprisingly good so the cornet version is a option but i dont interest for Bach pieces because of rims (to uncomfortable for me).
As for the bbore yes I now what you mean, the old Purviance cornet pieces have fairly tight bbore and works nice with LB horns but as i told now the rim is non works for me anymore , in the past use to play on my .464 eterna cornet a Warburton 3SV with KT bbore and it was good combination, generally I prefer the S or A type cups.
I hope my Reeves to match the reciver and not have to look for something new.
Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 and 800 LB cornets
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1953
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Mpc for 1927 Conn 81A Victor |
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| giakara wrote: | | . . . I am not interest about short shank deep V pieces , I want to now about long shank mpcs and trad jazz settings. |
I don't have an 80A or 81A, but I do have a Conn 38A. I find that modern cornet mouthpiece shanks don't quite fit -- there is a slight wobble.
You seem to be equating short shank mouthpieces with deep V cups. I wanted to point out that you can order a Conn "short shank" compatible blank from Mark Curry with any of a variety of cup/throat/backbore designs optimized for different styles of cornet playing. In addition, Mark can get a digital scan of the rim you like and scale the cup to it. The total cost for all this is probably around $200 American excluding shipping. That may seem pricey, but look at it this way -- you're getting a custom mouthpiece for less than half the price of a stock Monette Unity!
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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nieuwguyski
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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There's a lot of contradictory information out there about mouthpieces for Conn cornets from the '20s. The Conn Loyalist website states that vintage Conn cornets use a different taper than modern mouthpieces:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArticle34.html
Both Mark Curry and Jim New make cornet shanks with a special taper and length for vintage Conn cornets.
I've also been told, by a respected instrument repair tech and mouthpiece maker, that vintage Conn cornets use a standard taper shank and that the shank length doesn't matter much because there's no "step" at the end of the receiver (at least on an 80A) so there's no "gap."
All I can say is that my 1923 Conn 80A has a step at the end of the (apparently) original receiver, and that all my modern mouthpieces extend past that step. And that my vintage Conn Wonder and 4 cornet mouthpieces end about a tenth of an inch before the step -- which is a fairly typical gap.
My 80A is completely playable with modern mouthpieces and I have played gigs that way. But since I discovered the different insertion depths between modern and vintage Conn mouthpieces, I've use the Conn 4. I'll admit, it's probably the placebo effect. But it does play well with the Conn 4, despite it being smaller than my normal mouthpieces.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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Joined: 22 May 2020
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Mpc for 1927 Conn 81A Victor |
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| Halflip wrote: | | giakara wrote: | | . . . I am not interest about short shank deep V pieces , I want to now about long shank mpcs and trad jazz settings. |
I don't have an 80A or 81A, but I do have a Conn 38A. I find that modern cornet mouthpiece shanks don't quite fit -- there is a slight wobble.
You seem to be equating short shank mouthpieces with deep V cups. I wanted to point out that you can order a Conn "short shank" compatible blank from Mark Curry with any of a variety of cup/throat/backbore designs optimized for different styles of cornet playing. In addition, Mark can get a digital scan of the rim you like and scale the cup to it. The total cost for all this is probably around $200 American excluding shipping. That may seem pricey, but look at it this way -- you're getting a custom mouthpiece for less than half the price of a stock Monette Unity! |
What year is your 38A? Mine is a 1965 and I haven't experienced that on any long or short shanked cornet mouthpieces (I went on a bit of a safari to find the "perfect" mouthpieces across multiple cup depths) except for a Schilke 14A4x cornet-shanked piccolo mouthpieces.
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1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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huntman10
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017
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Location: Texas South Plains
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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I have a 1921 Conn New Wonder (it is the same as the Victor 80A) and a 1927 Victor 80A both with the complete and working Bb/A mechanism. I recently took the 1921 model to play in our concert band. I had expected to sit in the second section, but all our first players were out, and I had to step up. I had brought a Curry 2VC that was a bit wider,, but otherwise was almost identical to my original Conn Wonder mouthpiece, and stock 70's Bach 1 1/2 C cornet piece..
I did use the Curry to play a flugelhorn duet on the Conn New Wonder (it blended perfectly with my friend's Vintage One flug. For the rest I used the Bach mouthpiece which worked quite well, without tuning issues,and carried over a bunch of Strad and Getzen trumpets. So, I would say don't worry, be happy with what you have.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1953
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Mpc for 1927 Conn 81A Victor |
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| Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | | What year is your 38A? Mine is a 1965 and I haven't experienced that on any long or short shanked cornet mouthpieces (I went on a bit of a safari to find the "perfect" mouthpieces across multiple cup depths) except for a Schilke 14A4x cornet-shanked piccolo mouthpieces. |
You have a 38A Connstellation. I have a 38A Victor Special, which was only produced between 1935 and 1941; it is a completely different design (it has the 'opera glass' tuning mechanism, sort of like an 80A except that the related tubing forms a loop instead of an inverted "U"). If I had your horn, modern cornet shanks would fit just fine (as you say).
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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giakara
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Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 3833
Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| huntman10 wrote: | I have a 1921 Conn New Wonder (it is the same as the Victor 80A) and a 1927 Victor 80A both with the complete and working Bb/A mechanism. I recently took the 1921 model to play in our concert band. I had expected to sit in the second section, but all our first players were out, and I had to step up. I had brought a Curry 2VC that was a bit wider,, but otherwise was almost identical to my original Conn Wonder mouthpiece, and stock 70's Bach 1 1/2 C cornet piece..
I did use the Curry to play a flugelhorn duet on the Conn New Wonder (it blended perfectly with my friend's Vintage One flug. For the rest I used the Bach mouthpiece which worked quite well, without tuning issues,and carried over a bunch of Strad and Getzen trumpets. So, I would say don't worry, be happy with what you have. |
This is good news , I guess I don't have to worrie , thanks.
Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 and 800 LB cornets
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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Subtropical and Subpar
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Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 634
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Mpc for 1927 Conn 81A Victor |
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| Halflip wrote: | | Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | | What year is your 38A? Mine is a 1965 and I haven't experienced that on any long or short shanked cornet mouthpieces (I went on a bit of a safari to find the "perfect" mouthpieces across multiple cup depths) except for a Schilke 14A4x cornet-shanked piccolo mouthpieces. |
You have a 38A Connstellation. I have a 38A Victor Special, which was only produced between 1935 and 1941; it is a completely different design (it has the 'opera glass' tuning mechanism, sort of like an 80A except that the related tubing forms a loop instead of an inverted "U"). If I had your horn, modern cornet shanks would fit just fine (as you say). |
Ah, right! It had slipped my mind that Conn had reused the 38A nomenclature when they released the Connstellation. That certainly explains the modern mouthpiece issue your horn has. Cheers!
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1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Abraxas
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Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 345
Location: London, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| I have a collection of 80A's and one 8A and my Curry short shank MPCs play just fine in them. If you want a shallow cup, I like my Curry 30 C and 30 M even better but you have to try. Our embouchures are different. The thing about these opera glass - 'tunable bell' cornets, you can dial in the tuning perfectly. |
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giakara
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Location: Greece
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:47 am Post subject: |
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As I see many of you guys you play those horns with modern long shank mpcs with no problem so my Reeves will also fits well I guess.
Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 and 800 LB cornets
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs |
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