Are there trumpets so bad they are good?

[TriumphantTrumpeter]

I was wondering if there are any trumpets that, while not being first class or suitable for a symphony have a particular unique sound and tone that makes them interesting and desirable.

[Andy Cooper]

[Jaw04]

Trumpets with things such as misaligned valves, leaks, dings, bends, can have interesting playing qualities. For example, if your waterkey is leaking air, it can yield some interesting flexibilities particularly above the staff, but it will be frustrating to play a single note with a solid compact tone. So yes, defective trumpets can be interesting and somewhat desirable but I'd rather have a blank canvas that is reliable to work with. Another example, a plastic trumpet or plastic mouthpiece can have a very lovely warm sound, however, it is limiting in other ways and likely not appropriate for a lot of situations.
Last example, I like playing on stuffy student model horns for fun. They can sound really cool and bright when you step on the gas. However, once again, I prefer the reliability of my normal setup overall.
A modern car is much easier to drive, safer, and more efficient than an old Ford Mustang, but the Mustang is cool and unique. Instruments can be similar.

[Goby]

There are plenty of trumpets that are "unsuitable" for symphony orchestra that may be excellent for a soloist or a musician playing a different genre. Most symphony players wouldn't dare play a Calicchio 1s/2 on a Mahler symphony, but that same horn is the de facto choice for LA Studio musicians and lead trumpet players. Trumpets with unique sounds can be very powerful tools in the hands of great musicians. In my opinion, a "characteristic sound" is one of the highest achievements an instrument maker can have (e.g. Bach, Calicchio, Martin, Monette). Whether or not that sound is appropriate for the situation is up to the musician.

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

The same goes for vintage trumpets, which were built for a different sound concept. I have a liberty that I like, but it probably wouldn't be appropriate for a modern orchestra.

[Crazy Finn]

[krax]

In production?

I tempted to name a bunch of heavy high end trumpets, but no, that wouldn't be fair. They're great trumpets, just different.

The best example I can come up with is the Meazzi trumpet Woody Shaw played. I had one for a couple of years and even though it clearly was meant to be a professional trumpet model with the gold plate, the fancy engravings and other stylish details, most people wouldn't have used it because of its rather different sound and intonation, but Woody did with great success.

Those vintage trumpets mentioned are also good quality trumpets, just different and that's not what you were asking about.

[stuartissimo]

Trent Austin made a video on a horn that sounded just fantastic, but by his own account was borderline unplayable because of the lack of compression.

[Richard III]

[TriumphantTrumpeter]

Well folks what I meant was not only 'first water' professional instruments but instruments across the entire spectrum from 'student' to 'pro' and all points in-between.

Some years ago I happened to have two clarinets - An old Boosey and Hawkes Edgeware and an orchestral Buffet Crampon R13. The Edgeware cost me £45 or about thirty US dollars and the R13 was a 'professional' quality instrument that retailed at about fourteen hundred pounds or around two thousand dollars at the time. Although I was only tinkering with these instruments at the time when I picked up the Edgeware it really screamed and was a hoot to play. It wanted to play jazz and be wild but the R13 was so precise and accurate and creating a very clear accurate tone but without a unique 'voice' like the old rough boosey and Hawkes. I have found the same with guitars and other types of instruments I have owned over the years too. Some are brilliant tools that do a job very precisely while others wail and growl and have that indefinable quality that gives them a life of their own. I guess you could say the difference between Elvis and an Opera singer.

I am interested to know what trumpet makes and models may also have this quality about them.

[kristiner]

I was asked to play a traditional piece with a Javanese Gamelan orchestra in grad school. It was difficult to find the notes of the pelog scale on my Bach, but I had an old Holton peashooter C trumpet that worked out perfectly. The intonation was such that I never could really use that horn in any other context…
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Kris Tiner
Professor of Music, Director of Jazz Studies
Bakersfield College
http://kristiner.com

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

With trumpet, part of the concern is "blending," and I agree that there are definitely fun trumpets to play, typically very bright or very mellow, that often aren't great matches for symphonic playing.

One of my favorites is a trumpet with a lot of nickel silver that really cuts. I also have a Bach 72, which I love, but those (I think) don't project as well.

[Robert P]

The question isn't valid.

A "bad" trumpet isn't synonymous with an inappropriate trumpet. Doc Severinsen did some amazing playing on a Getzen Eterna which is generally regarded as capable of being a bright, cutting horn but some might not choose one for symphonic playing though with an appropriate mouthpiece I don't know if anyone would really hear the difference if they weren't told someone in the section was playing one.

A bad trumpet would be one that has mechanical problems, plays chronically out of tune, has a sound quality that's off. All plastic trumpets are bad by the standards of what you want a trumpet to do. They're incapable of producing a nice sound, don't project like a real trumpet, aren't genuinely useful for anything musically but a clown band where colorfulness is more important than sound, where their odd, plastic sound might actually be in character with what you want.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C

Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo

Chinese Flugel

[etc-etc]

[TriumphantTrumpeter]

They were both Boehm system clarinets Etc-Etc. It's hard to explain but the old Edgeware just had a voice all of it's own that made you want to bounce about and sing with it. It wasn't perfect but it was 'cool' where the R13 felt like a precision instrument designed to be used to exactly replicate what a composer wanted his piece to sound like every time without adding any of it's, or it's players own taste to the show.

In other instruments this unique voice (rather ironically) is pursued as people want to be just like Hendrix, Vai, Clapton and a plethora of other artists leading to a whole host of signature models and I guess there must be an element of this in the trumpet world as there are signature models but is it slightly different in trumpets with people simply pursuing the best possible intonation and easiest playing or are there truly unusual sounding instruments. I have to stress that in this I do not mean by any stretch 'bad', terribly out of tune and the like I simply means instruments that stand out for having an unusual and possibly unique sound and an ability to do things like bend notes in different ways and readily produce different sound effects or do Trumpets not work that way? Obviously players do seek to create unusual variety in their sound or there wouldn't be the massive range of effects units (aka Mutes) that are available so are there trumpets that also have a broader range of sound effects built in?

[Dennis78]

I have the highest order trumpet the Cecilio offered. Now they are only Mendini, of which I have the cheapest one ~$94 when I bought it and their pocket trumpet.

The Cecilio is THE bad horn. Search every thread here and it’s the only conclusion one can come to.
I’m here to say it’s a fine trumpet! Lights up really fast and is quite an easy blow. I think they were based off a Yamaha but it’s much lighter and the sound is much much brighter

So……. Not a first class instrument but definitely a unique instrument
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a few different ones

[OldSchoolEuph]

[TriumphantTrumpeter]

Agreed OldSchoolEuph... I guess I must apologise as my title seems to have caused so much consternation and misunderstanding when I didn't mean it to.

[nltrumpet]

My high school band had a terrible Reynolds trumpet in their inventory. We’d pull it out as a joke, like a Yugo of trumpets. I’m sure that stems more from its lack of care than its build quality alone, though.

[Crazy Finn]