Flat on C Trumpet

[trptboy3]

Hey all,

This is something that's been a challenge for a while and can be pretty frustrating. I'm consistently fairly flat on C trumpet. It's been an issue on a couple of Yamahas I've owned, as well as some Bachs. My current C is a gen 3 Yamaha Chicago and previous horn was a gen 2 NY YM. On both horns things sit kinda low to include C in the staff, G on top of the staff, high C, and most 23 combinations (Ab's, Eb's). Even with the slide all the way in.

Now while it is nice not dealing with the "typical" C trumpet issues, it's really uncomfortable when playing with someone or an ensemble and I have to lip up those notes to be in tune. I've tried different mouthpieces, Backbores, throats, etc and those don't seem to solve the issue. I also play with drones and have the tuner on the stand frequently. I don't have this issue on my other horns. Bb, Picc, Eb, cornet are all fine and within normal tolerances.

I play professionally so it's not a lack of experience with C trumpet or my general ability. Maybe there's something in my approach that could be tweaked? Or maybe I just need to have the horn modified. Any thoughts on helping to correct this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
_________________
Bach 37
Yamaha NYS2-YM
Kanstul 1520 Picc

[J. Landress Brass]

What mouthpiece do you play on C?
_________________
Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com

[trptboy3]

Currently I'm on a Parke 640-285-25 with a 25/orchestral Backbore. I've also tried slightly tighter throats, tighter Backbores, and varying cup depths with no really success in solving the issue.
_________________
Bach 37
Yamaha NYS2-YM
Kanstul 1520 Picc

[J. Landress Brass]

I've cut down mouthpieces for some people who have a tendency to played flat.
_________________
Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com

[trptboy3]

I'll send you a PM.
_________________
Bach 37
Yamaha NYS2-YM
Kanstul 1520 Picc

[cheiden]

When I started on C I played really flat until my teacher advised me to aim higher in the slot than I do on Bb. Not long after my problems all but disappeared. Without that advice, I'd probably still be playing flat.

For amusement, I had exactly the opposite problem on the flugel. I had to aim lower in the slot in order to stop fighting the horn.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Tpt_Guy]

I played flat on C trumpet until I stopped approaching it as if it were a Bb trumpet.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

[Andy Cooper]

Just want to clarify - your C is not uniformly flat on all notes - just some - more than is common for many C trumpets?

Have you checked your mouthpiece gap?

Stomvi has some interesting videos showing how too much or too little gap can affect intonation on only some notes.

https://stomvi-usa.com/learn-about-the-annulus-gap/

See if this is similar to what you are experiencing.

[Trumpetingbynurture]

[Irving]

Have you tried a Bach with one of the shorter lead pipes (25H, for example there are others as well), with a standard C crook? The ones all C trumpets used to come with back in the day. Now, the Bb crook is standard, and it lowers the pitch.

[nltrumpet]

I’ve recently worked through a similar issue. It seems counter-intuitive, but try pulling your tuning slide. I was actually “lipping down” most of the notes on my horn without realizing it, and when I came to a flat note, it felt like I was pushing against a brick wall trying to raise the pitch up.

Pull it maybe ¼ inch and try it on fresh chops. If you don’t notice a difference after a week, it might be something else.

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
I need to push in on my C trumpets also, sometimes all the way in, for the first few minutes. My playing is primarily on Bb trumpet or cornet. I use a Warburton 5D, 4D or Schilke 14 for my classical setting playing. I have not experimented with any throat mods, as that is what many orchestral folks I know have done.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[trptboy3]

Thanks so much for all the replies. I've definitely gotten some great ideas from this thread and am exploring a couple.

I've definitely tried the method of pulling the slide. Unfortunately, this generally just introduces more tension for me because it's just more flat and I end up lipping up to play in tune with those around me. I understand how this might help in theory, but have never gotten it to work for me.

I also used to have a Bach C with 25H pipe and C crook. This was decidedly not flat for me, but the playability was really rough. Haha. Aside from struggling to bring the pitch center up, the gen 3 Chicago is seriously the best C trumpet I've ever played. So the pitch something I'm willing to work to figure out.

I've learned that in the past Yamaha has made a cut down tuning slide for the Chicago. I'm looking in to getting ahold of one of those. I'm also going to do as a couple of folks have suggested and get a short shank for my mouthpiece. Checking out gap stuff wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Thanks again for the great suggestions!
_________________
Bach 37
Yamaha NYS2-YM
Kanstul 1520 Picc

[LittleRusty]