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Kumara999 Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2019 Posts: 138 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:57 am Post subject: What fundamentally makes a trumpet “easier” to play |
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I have had many really nice trumpets over my 3 plus year comeback. I recently traded a really nice Stomvi USA and Getzen 3X - both great horns in their own rights - for an Adams A2.
So I now own an Adams A2, Yamaha 6345HS and Getzen Eterna II 1200 M2. All 3 really nice horns.
But the A2 just seems easier, more comfortable to play.
So that got me to thinking - what’s the one thing that impacts the “feeling” of easier to play.
For me with the Stomvi - it was hand position. I could never get comfortable with how the horn needed to be held.
But beyond feel in hand. What is it that would define? Or what combination of things would define a great trumpet? What makes the biggest difference?
Just food for thought? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9088 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:02 am Post subject: |
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(irrelevant) _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Last edited by kehaulani on Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1861 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:33 am Post subject: Re: What fundamentally makes a trumpet “easier” to play |
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Kumara999 wrote: |
But beyond feel in hand. What is it that would define? Or what combination of things would define a great trumpet? What makes the biggest difference?
? |
Valve alignment, gap, venturi setting and matching with an appropriate mouthpiece. Then there are the picky things like assembly stress, water key spring tension etc.
Start with your Yamaha - get a professional valve alignment and check the gap and venturi size. Its the difference between a good trumpet and a sweet one. |
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bagmangood Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 Posts: 1352 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Non exhaustive list:
- Comfort in the hands, include positioning of the slides, hooks, height between the valves/bell, balance of the weight, etc. If you can hold it comfortably, one fewer thing to be fighting against.
- Valves: action, height, etc.
- Horn matching (one of) your sound concept(s). We all sound like us, but not all horns match how we want to sound, and so a horn that allows you to lean into your sound will be easier to play
- Good intonation - if you don't have to adjust to play in tune, it will feel easier to play
- Right resistance in the right registers. Again personal, but if you have a horn that balances and gives you the pressure where you want/need it, it will feel easier!
Those are the "minimum" to me to pay attention to.
Welcome to the Adams family _________________ More than one trumpet
A "few" mouthpieces |
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Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 526 Location: Toronto
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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After how it feels?
The mouthpiece must match you and the horn for what you are playing.
After that, hours of practice. Even if all three line up perfectly, with no skill from practice, it won't matter at all.
Also, don't have horns that do not blend in a section. If you are playing in a section with Bachs and Yamahas, you'd better have one - especially in an orchestra.
R. Tomasek |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7014 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Good technique + practice.
Good build quality.
Good design and development.
Good technique + practice.
Good resonance.
Good responsiveness.
Good technique + practice.
Good natural intonation.
Good mechanicals.
Good technique + practice. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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A.N.A.Mendez Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 5231 Location: ca.
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Whatever magic dust they used to make my Olds Super Recording. I swear it is the easiest trumpet I've ever played. _________________ "There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
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tptptp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2001 Posts: 1410 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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A.N.A.Mendez wrote: | Whatever magic dust they used to make my Olds Super Recording. I swear it is the easiest trumpet I've ever played. |
Amen to that! _________________ Craig Mitchell |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:24 am Post subject: |
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Magic dust must have been involved in the making of my 1952 medium bore Selmer Paris, too, because it is by far the easiest trumpet I have ever played.
Why ? Sorry, Heather, I haven't a clue.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1735 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:36 am Post subject: |
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bagmangood wrote: |
- Good intonation - if you don't have to adjust to play in tune, it will feel easier to play
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This is a big one.
Nothing makes a horn kill your buzz like subpar intonation - if you ever have a horn that's fun to play in your shed and feels awful in band and/or on the gig, it's far more likely than not playing poorly in tune for you...
Whether that's a result of poor design or a poor match for the player, it's why you really must check it carefully! |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1016 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 4:37 am Post subject: |
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It’s probably not a specific design characteristic, otherwise all trumpets would have it. The horn/mouthpiece/player combination determines most of it. Some general aspects like non-sticking valves, the instrument being clean and weight (as in easier to carry, not the effect on sound) maybe, but beyond that its all personal preference. Harrelson did some research on blow resistance for example, and discovered that some players experienced a more resistant configuration as less resistant to play, which he attributed to their body compensating for lack of expected resistance by adding it somewhere else. Stuff like that makes it hard to single out a single ‘best’ I guess. |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3275 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Harrelson did some research on blow resistance for example and discovered that some players experienced a more resistant configuration as less resistant to play, which he attributed to their body compensating for lack of expected resistance by adding it somewhere else. |
When you reduce the acoustic impedance of the instrument, the resistance contributed by the body becomes relatively greater.
The system then becomes less efficient. What may feel as a more "resistant" is actually more efficient. Which makes playing seem easier.
One cannot add "body" resistance as a substitute for the instrument tone resistance without reducing the efficiency of the system.
Efficiency = Instrument tone Resistance / Total Resistance
And: Total Resistance = Instrument tone Resistance + Body resistance
(The body resistance is usually VERY dominantly the lip aperture resistance.)
While the instrument acoustic impedance is a constant (for a particular resonance mode) the instruments ACTUAL "played" resistance depends on the players skill at producing tone.
Simply blowing air into the instrument through open lips does not reveal an instrument's "played" resistance. It WILL, however, reveal the instrument's resistance at 0 hertz.
So, "easier to play" is quite subjective. And depends heavily on the players ability AND preference. I find each instrument I own easy to play even though the characteristics are different.
But common instrument problems that reduce performance are:
1. Debris in the mouthpiece or instrument. (Especially the lead pipe)
2. Poor valve alignment.
3. Bad water key seal
4. general damage that would adversely affect acoustics |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1482 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Seems very convenient, after the preceding post to state that for me the best horn is that which with me behind feels the most resonant.
Thereby allowing me to interpret/ express my or the conductor’s idea of a certain tune without me having to handle the thing, compensate for this or that or what now. Just dive into the music. _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dennis78 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015 Posts: 673 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of practice made every horn easier to play.
Playing lots of crappy instruments until they sounded good made every decent horn a dream to play _________________ a few different ones |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2458
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:39 am Post subject: |
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A.N.A.Mendez wrote: | Whatever magic dust they used to make my Olds Super Recording. I swear it is the easiest trumpet I've ever played. |
GeorgeB wrote: | Magic dust must have been involved in the making of my 1952 medium bore Selmer Paris, too, because it is by far the easiest trumpet I have ever played. |
Yet if these 2 swap horns, they would probably think the other nuts. Everyone is different and what “fits” one person won't fit another. You have to determine what characteristics (beyond sound mechanical condition and adherence to basic design principles) work best for you personally.
After that, this really sums it up:
Dennis78 wrote: | Lots of practice made every horn easier to play. |
_________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Good point there, Ron. _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3339 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: Re: What fundamentally makes a trumpet “easier” to play |
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Kumara999 wrote: | ... - what’s the one thing that impacts the “feeling” of easier to play. ... |
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Apart from the ergonomics of holding it, a horn (and mpc combination) that feels 'easy to play' has 'blowing demands (resistance)' that matches the player's 'blowing offer (effort)'. .... Goldilocks ! _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12681 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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I think finding a horn that slots appropriately for the player helps.
A horn with really loose slots allows the player to hit a given note rather than the partial above or below by accident. On the flip side if the player doesn’t have good pitch sense yet this could result in playing out of tune.
Medium tight slots can help with pitch issues but may make a player who isn’t good at playing pitches out of the ether miss the correct partial.
Tight slots can make the pitches lock in, in respect to tuning, but if the horn’s ecosystem doesn’t get the partials to lay in tune this can be a negative for tuning. In addition tight slots and a horn that is out of tune in respect to partials, one can miss the notes when the partials are close together.
“Horn ecosystem” for me is how the whole instrument plays. Things like mouthpiece gap, cup, backbore, the bells taper, etc.
So after that long missive, I personally don’t think one instrument fits all, or even one player at all stages of their careers. |
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Kumara999 Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2019 Posts: 138 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Super interesting. Thanks for all the comments.
Heather |
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