mouthpiece receiver Yamaha YFH 631

TrpM · Last edited by TrpM on Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

I recently got a Yamaha YFH 631 flugelhorn handed over by my community band. As far as I can tell, it is the first 631 incarnation with the rose brass bell.

Surprisingly, the instrument came with a trumpet mouthpiece in the case. First, I thought that the previous owner exchanged the leadpipe for one fitting to a trumpet mouthpiece, but I am not so sure anymore (can´t ask him - he was an old man who died peacefully and his family donated his flugel to the band).

The receiver looks pretty much as the one I can find on photos of the YFH 631 on the internet. And Yamaha flugelhorn mouthpieces fit smoothly. However, they go into the receiver much deeper as any mouthpiece I have ever seen on any trumpet or cornet and definitely much deeper compared to the Getzen Eterna flugel (80s model) I had before.
The trumpet mouthpiece does fit as well into this flugel (?) receiver - however, it inserts considerably less deep than on my trumpet (Yamaha 5335G). No trumpet mouthpiece fits into the Getzen Eterna flugel receiver. [edit: "fitting means: has a playable fit"]

Does anyone have an idea whether I have the original YFH 631 leadpipe/receiver or a retrofitted trumpet/flugel mouthpiece receiver? I provide some measurements with different mouthpieces below.

Given is always the length of the part of the mouthpiece that goes into the receiver.
YFH 631 receiver:
Yamaha 11F4: 30 mm (1.18 inch)
Yamaha 12F3d: 30 mm (1.18 inch)
Yamaha Eric Miyashiro: 35 mm (1.38 inch)
Marcinkiewicz BS FL: 28 mm (1.10 inch)
Yamaha 11B4 (trumpet): 22 mm (0.87 inch)

Yamaha 5335G receiver:
Yamaha 11B4 (trumpet): 28 mm (1.10 inch)

Getzen Eterna flugel receiver:
Yamaha 11F4: 19 mm (0.75 inch)
[edit: Yamaha 11B4: 11 mm (fit is not really tight and smooth)]

It would be great if owners of Yamaha flugels (631 or other models) could confirm/disprove some of the measurements provided above.

Thanks,
Martin

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187

A photo of the mouthpiece inserted into the receiver and, for comparison, another photo of the same mouthpiece sitting next to the receiver (not inserted) would be helpful.

Shifty · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 12:59 pm Post subject:

I have an older ACB Doubler flugelhorn, which is more or less a Yamaha 631 clone.

Using the leadpipe that came with it, my Stork flugel pieces insert about 18mm, and my Curry piece goes in about 15mm. A trumpet mouthpiece only goes in about 9mm.

I recently retrofitted it with an actual Yamaha 631 leadpipe. It's a bit tighter fit into the horn. My Storks insert nearly 30mm, and the Curry 25mm. A trumpet piece goes in about 20mm, which is actually enough to make it playable.

So, it appears that the Yamaha leadpipe does provide deeper insertion than the ACB original, which is more the size of your Getzen. My numbers are pretty close to yours.
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TrpM · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:38 pm Post subject:

Halflip · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 3:07 pm Post subject:

I don't have a 631, but I have a YFH-6310Z with the stock tuning bit/receiver. A regular Yamaha large Morse shank flugel mouthpiece inserts about 32 mm. A regular trumpet mouthpiece (non-Yamaha) inserts about 17 mm.

I'm pretty sure your 631 has a stock flugelhorn tuning bit designed to accept a large Morse taper. It sounds like your Getzen Eterna (which according to references is designed to accept a large Morse taper too) simply has a somewhat smaller diameter for a large Morse receiver (which would explain why it won't accept the trumpet mouthpiece at all).

I have quite a few flugelhorns, some of which accept small Morse (Bach) or French tapers, and all of them take quite a bit of shank insertion depth. Perhaps your Getzen is the outlier.
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TrpM · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:52 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the replies so far. It seems highly unlikely that the leadpipe is not the original one. The mouthpiece going in quite deep into the receiver seems to be a general Yamaha flugelhorn feature.

etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6187

To me, this looks like a good/usual fit for an Yamaha 11F4 mouthpiece and a 631 flugel leadpipe.

Incidentally, my 14F4 also wobbled in the receiver of a brand new Getzen Eterna 4-valve flugelhorn. Probably Yamaha and Getzen flugelhorn tapers are not exactly identical.

For a really deep insertion (proportion of the tapered length entering the receiver) look no further than a Yamaha short shank cornet mouthpiece with a Yamaha cornet receiver. That one goes all the way in.

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

Looks like the regular Yamaha 631G flugel mouthpipe and mouthpiece fit.
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TrpM · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:40 am Post subject:

Thanks everyone. I consider the case closed. It is the original receiver.

I played the horn a few times now and I like it better compared with the Getzen Eterna. The Getzen is much larger with a huge bell but surprisingly light, the YFH 631 feels and is smaller but much heavier.
Playing has been fun so far. Especially in the upper register (a´´ and above) the Yamaha feels much more secure.
And - very limited experience, I did not play it in a rehearsal yet - it seems that I get along with deeper mouthpieces with a wider bore much better. I have a Wick 4FL which gives a very dark, mellow (almost too mellow) tone. With the Getzen, my (admittedy limited) endurance was sucked out in no time. This seems to be much better with the Yamaha. But still, playing this mouthpiece is a challenge. For now I prefer the Yamaha Eric Miyashiro (on the Getzen I used the 11F4).
And the Yamaha is visually more pleasing: the first thing you notice with the Eterna is the weird, almost rectangular shape, while the YFH 631 welcomes your eyes with the beautiful rose brass bell. The comparison is a bit unfair, because the general condition of the Yamaha is better, but still: I am happy!

cheiden · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:12 am Post subject:

Yeah, I'd say the fit looks right to me.

I've had a Getzen Eterna and currently play a Yamaha 731. They play quite differently. It might take some time until you really acclimate to the Yamaha. I like using the Yamaha 14F4 and it works well for most types of playing. I'm likely to get a Reeves HF piece which produces a gorgeous solo tone.
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