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Conn 80-A SN location?


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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 4:55 pm    Post subject: Conn 80-A SN location? Reply with quote

Can someone tell me where to find a serial number on a Conn 80-A cornet?

I have one in perfect mechanical condition and the lacquer looks to be 100%. BUT . . I don't know whether it has been relacquered and whether this is a late model or not.

I want to sell it but would-be more comfortable if I could date/authenticate it. I've read thru the Conn Loyalist and other info but just can't find an answer.

Thanks.
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E_Smith
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For mine (a 1921 according to Conn Loyalist), the serial # is on the second valve stamped vertically. Pictured here https://tinyurl.com/2p925av8
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to have a 1954 model, and the s/n was in the vertical position on the left hand side of the 2nd valve casing, about even with where the bell exited the 1st valve.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no serial number showing, anyplace. Additionally, there must have excess buffing and relacquering. The bell engraving is barely noticeable.
The horn was sold to me as an 80-A and is constructed as one. Lacquer is 100%. I'm in a quandry.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, can you tell roughly which era it’s from? The valve caps and finger buttons changed over the years (at least 4 different versions I can think of), and the finishes varied from time to time.
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Shifty
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani,

You and Dale are both on Trumpetboards. Way easier to post photos over there.

As well, there are some experts in the "Cornets, Corneters, Corneting" group on Facebook that might lend a hand.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah there ways to tell which generation it is from. I think that if the serial number is buffed completely off, that is a LOT of buffing. Like if they hit it that hard right there with a buffing wheel, then tube between the casings must be almost buffed all the way through.

You can tell by the opera slide threads, the buttons and caps, the end of the receiver, the springs, and valve configuration
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on a few comments above, here's a little more info:

Studying the photos on Conn Loyalist, this horn does not have the interlocking rods from the tuning mechanism between the first valve and the player side. But it does not have a brace on the master tuning slide, which my photos of a 80-A do not have. Additionally, on the third-valve slide where a finger hook might be, is a slot for a marching-band lyre.

I'm going to sell it for just a couple hundred bucks, it's otherwise a decent horn, but it is not worth a lot of time and research.

You can see a couple of photos by going to this link. Thanks, again.
https://trumpetboards.com/topic/1147/help-me-identify-this-conn-cornet
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’d guess it’s from the 1930s, since it has the older style valve body, caps, and finger buttons. It also has a pinky hook, a 2nd valve slide that sticks straight out, and no brace from the leadpipe down to the 3rd valve slide. Some of the parts aren’t correct, such as the braces between the bell and leadpipe, and the mouthpiece receiver, so it’s difficult to be certain about it. Have you measured the bore size? There were other Conn cornet models that looked like the 80A, but had smaller bores.
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king leopardi
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you remove one of the valves from the casing, the serial number should be engraved vertically along the top part that contains the spring.

Conn changed up the valve buttons around 1921 (I have a couple of Victors from 1921 with the older and new style valve caps). Also, from about 1931-1935, Conn enclosed the vertical tuning slide wheel in a housing. Based on that, I'd guess this one dates from between 1921-1931.

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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. Early valve buttons. Used to have the quick change mechanism and the leadpipe is not original nor the bell braces. The bell braces are from a 36b or lightweight artist. Looks like the serial number was purposefully buffed off.
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king leopardi
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that could be the case. One other possibility is that playwear had worn the serial number down prior to the refinish.

Some of those mid-1920s Conns had the copper valve blocks which seem to wear down easier. I have one of these, and even with the original finish, the serial number is pretty hard to make out.

That is kind of a strange replacement receiver. Looks similar to a 1920s Conn 22B I have where the leaderpipe and receiver were replaced with one from a Conn Director.

These are hands-down my favorite Conn model (particularly with the original deep cup Conn Wonder mouthpieces), but I'm pretty partial to the Bix Beiderbecke sound so I'm a bit prejudiced.

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king leopardi
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And lipshurt--great point on the bell braces. I think you're spot on there. Good observation!

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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can zero in a little on the date by checking out the valves.

Is it top sprung (like a modern trumpet) or bottom sprung?
They were top sprung in the teens and twenties.

If you want to spend the time, you can check the different valve set ups Conn used by looking at their ads over the years.

https://www.saxophone.org/museum/publications/museumType/1/manufacturer/13
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

king leopardi wrote:
If you remove one of the valves from the casing, the serial number should be engraved vertically along the top part that contains the spring. . . I'd guess this one dates from between 1921-1931. Dave Brewer


Bingo! You nailed it. You Da Man, Dave! Thanks.

The SN is 255,XXX which puts it in 1928.
https://conn-selmer.com/en-us/resources/serial-numbers/cg-conn-instrument-serial-numbers

I guess it's an 80-A?
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
I guess it's an 80-A?


What's the bore diameter?

In 1928:
.485 = 80A
.438 = 84A
.422 = 4A

This shows it had a mechanism prior to restoration, but if it had not, .422 without the mechanism would be a 6A

(it is an LP-only, the HP/LP versions are all "add 1")
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron, considering the questions as to just what it really is, and its condition (BTW, valves and slides are fine), what do you think a good asking price would be? Full disclosure of info, of course. Thanks.
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OldSchoolEuph
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
Ron, considering the questions as to just what it really is, and its condition (BTW, valves and slides are fine), what do you think a good asking price would be? Full disclosure of info, of course. Thanks.


The market right now is wild. Week to week prices are all over the place based on if someone is looking for _____ or not. But trying to ignore that and look at it over a wider window: I would say that it all comes down to the repairs that were done.

If the horn were as-original, in that cosmetic form, I would say $325-$375 is the center of the bell curve.

If the heavy buffing you mentioned has thinned the brass to the point of weak spots, or taken enough mass off the bell to brighten the tone, then not more than $150.

If the receiver is matched by a replacement leadpipe, then comes the question of does it play as a Conn Victor should? If the leadpipe is wrong - that similarly drops it to about $125 - and only you are in a position to assess that as playing it is the only way.

If the aforementioned two issues do not come into play, then it is just a question of will the market take $100 off of that initial estimate for the lack of "correct" braces and receiver - which is an unknown until tested.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O.K. Ron, thanks.

Mechanically, it works well, all slides and valves are good with no discoloration on the valves. And one can see from the photos its cosmetic condition.

I think I'll start by pricing it at its functionality vs. authenticity, which is why I bought it in the first place. There must be someone out there with the same kind of values.

If the price is too low, once I deduct shipping and boxing it up, I'll hardly make anything. Might as well keep it for grins or make a lamp out of it. Thanks, again.
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Last edited by kehaulani on Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani wrote:
O.K. Ron, thanks.

Mechanically, it works well, all slides and valves are good with no discoloration on the valves. And one can see from the photos its cosmetic condition.

I think I'll start by pricing it at its functionality vs. authenticity, which is why I bought it in the first place. There must be someone out there with the same kind of values.

If the price is too low, once I deduct shiping and boxing it up, I'll hardly make anything. Might as well keep it for grins or make a lamp out of it. Thanks, again.


In most cases when selling an instrument, shipping isn’t included in the asking price. If you want to advertise it as having free shipping, you might want to add an estimated amount to the asking price to cover it. That said, shipping prices for things of moderate size like this have really gone up.

I’d try to sell it for about $175 + shipping. Pretty nice original ones with the case (and with a serial # )seem to be selling for around $350 + shipping, so keep that in mind.
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