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Butch123
New Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2022
Posts: 10
Location: TAHLEQUAH OKLA
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 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:39 pm Post subject: HIGH NOTE FAILURE |
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WHEN I PLAY ABOVE THE SCALE MY NOTES SEEM TO SQUEAK OUT LIKLE NOT ENOUGH AIR IM BEGINNING TO THINK ITS MY HORN AN 1964 OLDS IM RETURNING TO TRUMPET AFTER 50YRS IVE BEEN BACK PLAYING GOIN ON 2 MONTHS CHANGING TO A 3C MOUTHPIECE HELPED SOMEWHAT ANY IDEAS ?THANKS FOLKS
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1964 olds ambassador. 2000 something Bach. |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: HIGH NOTE FAILURE |
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| Butch123 wrote: | | WHEN I PLAY ABOVE THE SCALE MY NOTES SEEM TO SQUEAK OUT LIKLE NOT ENOUGH AIR IM BEGINNING TO THINK ITS MY HORN AN 1964 OLDS IM RETURNING TO TRUMPET AFTER 50YRS IVE BEEN BACK PLAYING GOIN ON 2 MONTHS CHANGING TO A 3C MOUTHPIECE HELPED SOMEWHAT ANY IDEAS ?THANKS FOLKS |
You should post video of yourself playing to get meaningful feedback.
Also clarify what "over the scale" means. You mean over the staff?
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TristanButton
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Joined: 23 Aug 2022
Posts: 7
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:29 pm Post subject: True lip flexibility |
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This is a big topic to go into, but I will try to keep things simple and useful.
When we play any note on the horn, we are either setting specifically for that note, or dragging up or down from a setpoint lower or higher than the note itself.
The term setpoint is used by Pops Mclaughlin and is a very good way to describe what is happening.
When we chop out above or below our normal playing registers it is because of 2 potential reasons.
1. We are unable to drag up or down any further from our our setpoint.
2. Our set point is to low or high to be useful in practice.
I highly reccomend looking at the Roll out exercises of the Balanced Embouchure method by Jeff Smiley. These exercises really help us to drag further from our set point, and to establish a more middle register setpoint.
Hope this helps.
Any questions, get in touch. |
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MrOlds
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 726
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dude. It’s not the horn or the mouthpiece. You are a beginner. Your head may remember that you used to play but your body has changed many many times since then and no longer remembers.
Get a teacher. A good teacher.
Read online trumpet advice primarily for amusement. Take our suggestions with a giant grain of salt.
It takes as long as it takes.
Enjoy the journey. |
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stuartissimo
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Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 990
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: HIGH NOTE FAILURE |
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| Butch123 wrote: | | IM BEGINNING TO THINK ITS MY HORN AN 1964 OLDS |
If you’re playing an Olds, the problem is unlikely to be your horn.
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Dayton
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Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2045
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | WHEN I PLAY ABOVE THE SCALE MY NOTES SEEM TO SQUEAK OUT |
Welcome back to trumpet playing! I'm assuming you mean above the STAFF. That's not unusual for someone who has only been playing for two months. It is unlikely to be a problem with your trumpet, as long as it is in good working condition. But there is no harm in having your local repair technician take a look.
The most likely way to make good progress as you return to trumpet playing is to work with a teacher. If you follow his/her advice regarding how to play and what and how to practice, you'll be setting yourself up for success and minimizing the frustrations of relearning trumpet.
Good luck! |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:38 am Post subject: Re: HIGH NOTE FAILURE |
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| Butch123 wrote: | | WHEN I PLAY ABOVE THE SCALE MY NOTES SEEM TO SQUEAK OUT LIKLE NOT ENOUGH AIR ... |
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My guess is that you are trying to 'force the notes' and have not yet developed the skills to 'play the notes'. And yes, there really are 'skills' and 'techniques' that need to be learned - it's not a matter of having lots of muscle power, or pain endurance.
MANY players acquired bad habits and bad techniques during their initial years of playing - a LOT of that needs to be re-thought and done better. No, an 'embouchure change' is probably not needed, but likely learning better ways to use it.
IF you are inclined to be analytic about 'how things work', you can read MY thoughts about 'embouchure basics' here -
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm
Of course, a good teacher should be able to quickly identify basic problems and give good advise about your specific needs.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Butch123
New Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2022
Posts: 10
Location: TAHLEQUAH OKLA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:44 am Post subject: HIGH NOTE FAILURE |
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THANK YOU. I GUESS PATIENCE REALLY IS A VIRTUE.thank you again
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1964 olds ambassador. 2000 something Bach. |
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steve0930
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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 191
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:05 am Post subject: |
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Hi TristanButton
| Quote: | | When we play any note on the horn, we are either setting specifically for that note, or dragging up or down from a setpoint lower or higher than the note itself. |
I thought this was an excellent post. Out of interest what is your own personal set point?
Thanks,
Steve in Helsinki.
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:51 am Post subject: Re: True lip flexibility |
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| TristanButton wrote: | ...
When we play any note on the horn, we are either setting specifically for that note, or dragging up or down from a setpoint lower or higher than the note itself.
...
When we chop out above or below our normal playing registers it is because of 2 potential reasons.
1. We are unable to drag up or down any further from our our setpoint.
2. Our set point is to low or high to be useful in practice. |
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Learning and establishing the needed setpoint for each note is critical for accurate sounding.
The process of how to learn the best setpoints is different for various teachers, but the goal is the same - learn what to do, and develop the skill to do it consistently.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5682
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:17 am Post subject: Re: HIGH NOTE FAILURE |
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| Butch123 wrote: | | WHEN I PLAY ABOVE THE SCALE MY NOTES SEEM TO SQUEAK OUT LIKLE NOT ENOUGH AIR IM BEGINNING TO THINK ITS MY HORN A 1964 OLDS IM RETURNING TO TRUMPET AFTER 50YRS IVE BEEN BACK PLAYING GOIN ON 2 MONTHS CHANGING TO A 3C MOUTHPIECE HELPED SOMEWHAT ANY IDEAS ?THANKS FOLKS |
Everything we need to know is right here in this first post.
Coming back after 50 years.
Only been back at it for 2 months
1964 Olds (model? Kinda doesn't matter)
Like others have said, regardless of how you used to play, you're a beginner right now. Your embouchure probably barely remembers what to do.
I've often talked about this, but it bears repeating - I started playing in 5th grade, but was well into my 3rd year before my playing started to expand in terms of sound, technique and range. I was 17 and in my 7th year playing before I got to a point where I could play well enough to actually go out and gig playing things like the Clarke Trumpet Voluntary and the Purcel Trumpet Tune.
Trumpet is an instrument that takes time. Getting some lessons and getting used to the idea that this is going to take a few years to really regain your stride - it's certainly not going to happen in a couple of months.
Regarding the trumpet, the 1964 Olds, I seriously doubt that this is the issue. When I first started playing, I was on a seriously beat up student model King cornet that was borrowed from a cousin. Awful instrument. I was neck and neck with another kid for 1st chair at the beginning of 8th grade with that thing and could play to 2nd ledger C without real issues.
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Big C
Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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For the vast majority of people who think "it's the horn": It's not. (I am the exception, of course. Aren't we all?)
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