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tclement
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Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 201
Location: Austin, Tx

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read the BE method is indirect. I started the BE method about 10 days ago. I am working on roll-out #1 and the lip clamp / squeak. I've had some success getting the right squeak. I've just started to attempt roll-in #1. I have been using the focused warmup routine in the lesson plan for 2-3 year players.

I have noticed that my normal playing is suffering. I've had several unusual "very bad playing days" in a row. My range and my endurance have significantly decreased. They weren't great before, but they are worse now.

1. Is it normal for the excercises to negatively affect my current embouchure ?

2. Am I doing something wrong ? possibly overdoing it ? How much is too much ?

3. How does someone know if a method doesn't work for them ?

I'm at a crossroad and feel that I need to decide whether to drop BE or stick with it and possibly cancel my upcoming performances ( scheduled church solos )

I don't rely on my trumpet playing for income, so it is ok for me to not perform for a while. I enjoy performing so stopping for a while doesn't sound appealing.

I welcome advice and suggestions.

Thanks,
Tim
Austin, Tx

[ This Message was edited by: tclement on 2004-01-08 20:50 ]
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trumpetteacher1
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3148
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim,

No, it is not normal to have the BE exercises negatively affect your regular playing embouchure.

More specifics from you would be nice, but in the meantime,

1. Stop the pedals.

2. Do lip clamp 1X per day.

3. Do Lip Clamp squeaks throughout the day.

4. Start working, if ready, on Roll-In #1. Only a few minutes per day.

5. Keep practicing (whatever) and playing with your regular embouchure. Do the church performances.

There is nothing 100% "safe." You have to go down the road a bit and see what happens. Still, I have almost always found smooth change to be more reasurring than radical change. Just do the simple things I suggested, and see what happens. This can be further modified if necessary.

Jeff Smiley
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tclement
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Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 201
Location: Austin, Tx

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today was interesting:

This morning I warmed-up using the focused warmup from the lesson plan on page 140. After the warmup I played several etudes that I've been working on. Playing felt normal.

Tonight, after a short warmup I played through the etudes again several times and ended up practicing roll-in #1. While not pretty, I was easily producing some very high, loud, clear pitches, double f's, g's & a's , I couldn't get the pitch any lower. I did this for about 15 minutes. Then I warmed-down by playing some very soft exercises from Clarke Technical Studies.

Do people usually experience high pitches as I've described when beginning Roll-in #1 ?
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tclement
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Joined: 25 Nov 2003
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Location: Austin, Tx

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW,

I practiced the lip clamp 1x today (part of my warmup) from page 140. I practiced the roll-out 1x today (part of my warmup). I practiced the Lip Clamp squeaks throughout the day. I practiced the roll-in 2x today. Once this morning (part of my warmup) and again this evening.

Also, the pedals weren't the last thing I did before moving into my normal routine this morning. The past problematic days, I moved into regular practice material immediately following the pedals.

Tim
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Larrios
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Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 776
Location: Middelburg, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tim,

Personally, I feel it's important to take a rest after the focused warm-up. Especially if you indicate yourself that you are having a hard time to continue with your normal playing afterwards. The warm-up is called focused for a reason. It doesn't take too much time, but it's very effective. It's challenging for your muscles. I don't know how much time you can spend on the horn through the day, but 30 minutes between the warm-up and your regular practise would already be nice. Just some time to let the extreme movements sink in and let your muscles relax and 'normalize'. From your last posts I understand that you're now experimenting a bit with the order in the warm up. That's fine as well. Just make sure that you can continue your normal playing.

Ko
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tclement
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Joined: 25 Nov 2003
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Location: Austin, Tx

PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ko,

I'm confused about the focused warmup. How should I use the focused warmup. Does it replace my regular warmup
Tim



[ This Message was edited by: tclement on 2004-01-10 14:26 ]
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HJ
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Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tim,

On a regular day with no gigs in the afternoon I always, always do the focused warm-up described in the lesson plan section. I have been doing this for 1 1/2 year now, so I am a bit experienced and I thought about and experimented with it a lot. For instance: how long should it take, what is the best order for me, when should I stop etc. In general I found out that Jeffs suggestions worked for me. I am at a point that I can do all the roll-out and roll-in exercises. Not all of them with a great tone, but I just do them. It takes about half an hour or a few minutes more. After that I rest about the same amount of time. This is my BE practice for the day. And yes, I never did another warm-up from the moment I got the book. All the long tones, slurs Clarke etc. did not give me the feeling I get from these exercises.

BUT: what's more important: to be honest I don't see it as a real warm-up, they are just exercises to improve my overall playing. As a matter of fact: I don't need a warm-up anymore, that is to say, if I play a scale or two and some notes in the low register, I am ready to play. And that means up to G above high C! Before BE I needed a lot of warming up, mpc buzzing, slurs and on a lucky day high C would come out after 40 minutes, or if I did not have time I could play some feeble high notes and be shot in 15 minutes. Neither of this happens anymore.

On the other hand, if I have a gig I have a warm-up routine of 10 minutes or so, that makes me more confident and it makes sense that muscles need some blood to do the job required. I do roll-out 1,2 and 3 very casually, play roll-in 1 and 2 and tongue a few scales. Nothing else.

Tips:
-of course your embouchure is going to feel different, that is why you started this, but do as Jeff and Ko and everybody else on these pages will tell you: keep your 'normal' embouchure when you play and practice. BE will not sink in faster if you let go of your old chops at once. That will only cause frustration and confusion. I am a pro and kept doing gigs from the start of my BE practice. Of course there was and still is a day or two that is not as great as you would want to, but you are building something that will last a lifetime, and didn't you have bad days before this? I think that is why most of us make the change, because we never knew for sure whether this would be a good or a bad day. From the moment I do BE I never had a bad day, only reasonable and better up to the greatest day EVER once a month or so.
-Be patient (this is the hardest part, and I tell you I am not the most patient guy in the world when it comes to trumpet playing, I want a soaring double high C, and I want it now and always!!!!!Hahaha)
-Don't overdo. It says so in the book, you can read it in this forum everywhere and I tell you again. I always rest a whole day with not even a lip clamp or anything after a day or ten. Give your lips(or rather your lip muscles) a chance to recuperate and grow. Muscles grow when in rest.
-rest between the BE exercises and your normal practice. When I do particularly the roll-in exercises my tone is not always great right away. Takes a few minutes to sink in. Just like the lip clamp: don't do it before playing. It's simply too streneous

Bert

[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2004-01-11 05:13 ]
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tptagain
Regular Member


Joined: 04 Jun 2003
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started reading through the book, so this question it is only intended for clarification. Tclement are you doing the entire 2-3 year focused warm up after only 10 days? Is this advisable for anyone just begining BE.
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oj
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Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1696
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My response to the last poster: No it is not adviceable!

BE patient!

I rushed ahead when I first got the book (more than 2 years ago now). Later I have realised that it was a bit stupid. If I could start over again (rewind back 2 years), I would go much slower. It is also better to do several rounds of say 10 min. (Roll-Out #1, Roll-In # 1, lip clamps, etc) per day, than to do all the exercises too early.

You can of course have "a look" at the more advanced exercises, but for the regular daily practice: Follow the suggested schedule. Listen to the CD. Do you have the rasping sound (lawn mover) on the double pedals? No, then don't go to Roll-Out #3 and #4, stay on #1 & #2!

Ole
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