3rd slide water key or not? And thoughts on Pollard keys?

ericmpena

The only horn I've owned with a 3rd slide water key is the Edwards X-13.

My 43 Strad, NY7 Strad, AustinWinds 460, and AustinWinds 470 all have 3rd slide end pull offs.

What's your preferred configuration? Do you think it affects the horn at all?

Also, who has experience with Pollard water keys? I hadn't seen them until ITG, and unfortunately the one that I saw was leaking air. It seemed to correct itself when I came back to the horn a bit later....but it didn't give me a good first impression. Maybe it was a fluke?

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

I prefer one water key on the tuning slide only, and that it be a Saturn. I will never have a spring break during a performance, or have to change a spring (and get pricked in the finger!), or deal with leaks (as with Pollards), or have to lubricate (as with Amados). I only have to disassemble them occasionally to clean (but always over a towel, so the small parts don't go bouncing everywhere). For the third slide, I prefer to pull the entire slide with either a stop pin system, or my fancy elastic string invention idea that I shared free of charge to the trumpet world in a TH thread this past week. Bach dump slides are often too close to the tuning slide water key area for me and are often unwieldy to remove, and the ones that are really easy to remove often will extend sometimes while playing. Me no wannuh play flat on low F-sharps.

ericmpena · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:41 pm Post subject:

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

RETrumpet · Veteran Member Joined: 26 Jan 2021 Posts: 210

Dayton · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:26 am Post subject:

I prefer the dump slide, which I find to be the simplest and most effective. Lever water key is next.

Not a fan of the Amado-style. I find them to be less effective than lever-style water keys. I also find them (slightly) more prone to problems such as sticking or falling apart that are very difficult to deal with during a performance.

I did have a horn with Saturn-style water keys. Some have complained about leakage, but I never had an issue.

I have not played Pollard water keys.

Dennis78 · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:08 pm Post subject:

I hate! water keys
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a few different ones

Dale Proctor · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:18 pm Post subject:

I’ve had OEM 3rd slide water keys added to my Bach 43 and my Bach 184. The 184 really needed one, because of the excess condensation a cornet produces, and because the dump slide is so close to the bell flare that I whacked the bell just about every time I removed it. I couldn’t really tell any difference in the way either horn played after I had the modification done.
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highscreamer · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:36 pm Post subject:

Thanks Dan. I just ordered a roll on Amazon. Let me know where to send the royalty payment.

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dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

Oh, no, Lou...not you! Someone was bound to fall for this scam, but I thought you'd be above that! (It's not really a scam...just crazy talk, SpongeBob. Funny thing...it works and is very simple! AND you get some arts & crafts time in!)

Crazy Finn · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:12 am Post subject:

I had a 184L cornet that had two different 3rd valve dump slides - one with an Amado and another with no water key.

I tried both many times, couldn't tell the difference at all.
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yourbrass · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:40 pm Post subject:

There's nothing wrong w/all the water keys mentioned. nor is there anything wrong with a 3rd water slide that pulls. I like two things about standard water keys; they look good, and you can adjust tension of the screw to change the tone.
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ericmpena · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:59 pm Post subject:

Just wanted to update that I gave Pollard water keys a try and it leaks not only from the hole but also from the threads where the cap screws on.

I emailed Jerry Pollard about it but he sorta dismissed my claims, saying that in over 3,000 units he's has less than a dozen with issues.

So far my experience is 2 for 2 that leak terribly.

I'm sending my slide in to have the Pollard removed and a Saturn key added.

I'll keep my 3rd slide keyless since I'd rather not add holes to my horn. It takes 5 seconds to remove the slide, dump the water, and put the slide back on anyways. That's a minor inconvenience to have over making a hole that could possibly lead to leaking air or water.

LittleRusty · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:04 pm Post subject:

shofarguy · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:57 pm Post subject:

I've owned a Benge 5X and a Schilke X4 that both had dump slides. Come to think of it, I think I had to dump the whole third valve slide on the X4. I had Kanstul put a NOS Benge 3rd valve lever key on the 5X and an Amado key on the Schilke. I preferred both that way.

All Wild Thing horns come with two Amado keys, except the Short Cornet which came with a full compliment of lever keys.

A couple of those WT horns were the two flugelhorn, which came with three Amado keys. My first flugelhorn, a Kanstul 1025, had three lever keys.

Things don't last forever. Good horn maintenance has kept all my horns in good order.
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

ericmpena · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:08 pm Post subject:

For those interested, here’s a short video of my Pollard water key leaking.

I filled my tuning slide with water and held it upright. Yesterday it was leaking from the hole. Today it’s leaking from the threads.

https://youtube.com/shorts/MKH-z-OTJec?feature=share

ericmpena · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:30 pm Post subject:

After a few more emails, Jerry has offered to send my horn builder new Pollard keys…along with instruction on how to correctly install them.

Jerry Pollard insists that the installer did a poor job and that's why the water key is leaking.

I’ll update this thread once I know more info.

LittleRusty · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:33 pm Post subject:

Riojazz · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:14 pm Post subject:

I've had my repair guy install both Saturn and Pollard water keys successfully, when he had not seen them before.

I'm curious how one could install them wrong such that it is the Pollard key that leaks. Is the solder joint of the Pollard key to the horn leaking, and that's the water we're seeing? That's all I could imagine going wrong here, unless the Pollard key itself is defective, in which case it isn't the fault of the installer.
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ericmpena · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:21 pm Post subject: