Do the lips really need to touch to vibrate?

[ErikA]

I’ve read that the lips must touch to vibrate. But I get better flexibility with an open embouchure and it doesn’t feel like my lips are touching at any point. At first I thought I must be wrong. But maybe not? I mean, if the lips are flapping above and below a small aperture, won’t that still produce alternate compression and rarefaction of air, i.e., sound waves, even if they don't make contact?

[JayKosta]

[zaferis]

I like the image of an oboe reed... they are close but not touching to vibrate as air moves between them.. If your lips, like the reed, are touching -air can't pass and the reeds can't vibrate. They either have to move away from each other to vibrate (with ease) or the air flow has to be such to force them apart or out of the way - this will lead to a tendancy for an explosive start.

I don't believe you should intentionally set the lips touching before moving air.. My image is more of the lips coming into position around a thread/string of air.
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Adjunct Professor
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[Vin DiBona]

Watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbU_9OsNcVI
R. Tomasek

[AndyDavids]

In a word...no!

[JayKosta]

Another concern regarding teaching how the lips should be positioned is that when the mouthpiece rim is placed on the lips, that the rim pressure will change the lip position. So the player might have a different feeling of the position of their lips - and might wonder 'what is the right position?'.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[kehaulani]

[cheiden]

[kehaulani]

As an aside, I wonder why they touch when something is tongued but not, otherwise.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Tpt_Guy]

[JayKosta]

This situation is a good example of over analyzing something. It is interesting to know the details of what is happening, but gaining that knowledge is unlikely to help anyone play or teach better.

I'd be interested to learn if anyone actually gives any attention while playing to aspects of 'lips touching'. I can see its usefulness in describing initial lip position BEFORE contact with the mouthpiece.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Steve A]

[kehaulani]

Good observation, Jay, and normally I would say, "Right On", but concentrating on the concept of "letting" the chops vibrate vs. "forcing" a buzz has resulted in my having a more relaxed embouchure with better results.

I think that in the past, I had thought more of "clamping down" when getting higher and, in retrospect, resulted in less flexible lips.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[MrOlds]

Im pretty sure my lips touch when I place the mouthpiece but I’m not sure how I’d know if my lips are touching once the first note begins.

When I think about individual parts of the system like this I usually get sidetracked and spend a few weeks undoing some quirk that developed in my playing. But lots of players are more capable than me of close analysis of the individual parts.

[Vin DiBona]

The danger of constant analysis about every little thing that is going on in playing the trumpet is very evident in this post.
It is much better to not agonize over what is happening every second when one is playing. Leave that stuff alone.
The instant one starts thinking about "how am I doing this?" distracts from making music.
Don't make it more complicated than it is.
When doing breath attacks, your lips must not touch. All other playing requires the lips to lightly touch before the release of the air for the attack of the note. That is what my high school teacher taught me.
I was fortunate to have teachers and colleagues who stressed practice and listen for the best results. When you hear these good results you will know how to continue the good results by practicing.
I never send young players here simply because they do not need to be confused by the multitude of different input on one subject. Especially when the poster is most likely an non-expert in the actual subject.
It is also the reason why many pros just lurk here and keep out of conversations.
I do not mean to be harsh or condescending here. Just pointing out how fruitless and confusing a post like this can become.

R. Tomasek

[kehaulani]

I think some of this micro-analysis is before the fact rather than after it. There's a reason for the popularity of the saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". In other words, losing sight of what we should really keeping our concentration on - the music.

Old Martial Arts analogy but I think appropriate here:
"Lead with the mind and the body will follow".

* Of course, some analysis and introspection is valid, but I think the context here is what's relevant.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[kalijah]

I set-up the aperture with lightly touching lips when the mp rim makes contact.

This gave me much more efficiency of effort, tone quality, range and endurance. I love it!

The lips do indeed nearly close on the closed part of the cycle. That includes players who think they play "open".

When buzzing, especially free buzzing, (or playing as if you are) the lips not only completely close in the cycle but "slam" closed.

[kalijah]

[gwood66]

[Irving]

If you think that the lips aren` t touching each other while playing, try to make one lip vibrate without touching the other lip.