Tongue Type Seven

donovan · Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:22 am Post subject: Tongue Type Seven

Mac Gollehon mentioned in a past thread that Doc recommended he use tongue type 7 (definition below).

I don't understand how the air is blocked using this articulation type. If the tongue is only striking the lower teeth or below, how in the world do you stop the air from reaching the lips???

The tongue type seven is indeed a very rare form. Sometimes it is used by players who perform with the jaw in a very protruded position.

This tongue strikes the back of the lower teeth, the lower gums, and even further down depending upon the register being played. A split-second after the tongue strikes, the tip lunges downward so that it makes contact in the gully where the lower gums adjoin the floor of the mouth.

During an ascending slurred interval, the tongue presses forward to create the essential tongue-arch level and to support the jaw while protruding. While descending, the forward tongue pressure is gradually reduced and the position of the jaw recedes slightly. Other than the tongue-strike, the tongue type seven is identical to the tongue type five.
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donovan · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:13 pm Post subject:

It appears I have stumped our Reinhardt experts…
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BeboppinFool · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:17 pm Post subject:

donovan · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:20 pm Post subject:

I did reach out to Mac. Super nice guy, and gave me some interesting info, but I don’t think he quite understood that I’m trying to find how the airflow is interrupted to create the articulation, so I never got a clear answer. To me, this seems like perhaps an error in the Encyclopedia, as the description does not seem to explain how the articulation works for this type.
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Doug Elliott · Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:57 pm Post subject:

That never made sense to me either. I suspect it's actually a form of dorsal, or K tonguing that simply feels like striking the lower gums with the tip while the top of the tongue is articulating.

JoshMizruchi · Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:24 am Post subject:

I’m not sure if what I add to this thread will be truly useful to you, but it may give you food for thought. And, I will give you advice that I received from Reinhardt experts.

I asked Dave Sheetz in a lesson, about my tongue type. I think I’m type 1 or 5, but I don’t know to this day. Dave shocked me with his answer: he said, “Don’t worry about it. Reinhardt never talked me me about my tongue type, it’s not that big of an issue.” It might have been Rich who told me this, but I think it was Dave. Again, I was shocked, but I did as he said, and so far, so good.

Granted, Reinhardt gave different students different advice. “There are as many systems as there are players” as he said. So maybe the tongue type knowledge matters more for some than others. But you are someone for who it matters more.

Chris told me one time he had a student who said, “As long as the chops are good, the air is good.” He agreed with that. Similar thing with the tongue, in my opinion.

I know that’s probably not the answer you’re looking for, and it may be completely unhelpful, but hopefully it at least gave you something to think about. If it is indeed a tongue issue, I guess I am stumped... For the moment.

BTW I may PM you about the Stevens stuff soon.

Best,

Josh
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donovan · Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:26 am Post subject:

I'm more curious then having an issue, but I do appreciate everyone's comments.

Josh - would love to talk Stevens. Let's connect!
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Donovan Bankhead
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Doug Elliott · Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:35 am Post subject:

Regarding Tongue Types in my teaching... I don't get into the numbers, I just make suggestions to try some things and see what works best, if it seems like any change could be beneficial.

One of the first things Doc had me try was to articulate slightly to the left and right to see if either way was an improvement. I'm not sure if that's even mentioned in the Encyclopedia.