Why most people prefer to play the trumpet over the cornet?

[Brassnose]

Nice take, George. I agree However: how about flugelhorns and bass trumpet?
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[GeorgeB]

[thecoast]

[Rwwilson]

For an alternative perspective on the initial question see this earlier thread.
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1220794

[Brassnose]

Happy to announce I’ll be using my Holton cornet for tonight’s Christmas gig First cornet gig since 1981, I guess, but it’ll be cold and dark and the cornet „length“ (i.e., the missing length) will allow me to see the music better and the sound does mix great with French horn, trombone, and tuba.

Will use a rather shallow mouthpiece because that is all I own at the moment but a proper one is on the way. Really enjoyed last nights soundcheck - I had forgotten how much fun cornets are.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[delano]

Maybe cornets are cute but that certainly does not answer the OP’s question.

[stuartissimo]

It’s probably not as simple a a single identifiable reason.

In my area, as a beginner the only community groups that have cornets are brassbands. Pretty much every other setting uses trumpets. As such, it’s both much more likely for a kid to start on trumpet, as well as making the trumpet much more flexible in terms of playing opportunities.

Second, most people in my country without musical knowledge have a tendency to call any musical instrument a ‘trumpet’. Flugels and cornets are generally considered trumpets by the masses. Clarinets and sousaphones can be considered trumpets too. In fact, there’s an add on the local marketplace website for a porcelain plate…labeled ‘trumpet for sale’. Many parents don’t even know that cornets exist, so even if their kid starts on one…guess what they think it is?

Those aren’t the only reason of course, but they definitely contribute.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[delano]

Though cornets are cute (I own several of them) the best answer to the OP’s question might be: trumpets sound better, at least they have a more modern sound.
Arguments like ‘people don’t know the difference’ cannot explain any difference in popularity because they don’t recognise any differences.
More specific: you can sell them a cornet for a trumpet.

[stuartissimo]

[Louise Finch]

It was always cornet all the way for me, doing all my home practise on cornet, even though I played trumpet slightly more out of the house, until I got my current trumpet as an ex-demo, as the dealer offered me a good trade in price for my never played Besson Sovereign cornet.

I still do all my home practise on my Yamaha Xeno cornet, and consider this my primary horn, but nowadays I'm equally fond of my Yamaha Xeno II trumpet. It is not because it plays like my Xeno cornet, it doesn't remotely, it is simply that combined with my James R New custom mouthpiece and James R New 6.5 sleeve, it plays the way I like a trumpet to play, and gives me the sound that matches the trumpet sound in my head. I've always joked that it would take something special in a trumpet to get my hands off my cornet, and this is such a trumpet.

I still have my Bach 37. The annoying sticking 1st valve that nothing or nobody could fix, started behaving itself after not touching my Bach 37 for two years, and has never started again since. Very odd! I lent it to someone recently and they really liked it. I forgot to tell them that I had spent time dialling in my trumpet/trumpet mouthpiece set-up with sleeves, going for a James R New 6 sleeve on my Bach, which probably explains why my trumpets play so well. I know that player is part of the equation regarding dialling in trumpets with sleeves, but a mouthpiece that plays well on the trumpet is a good start, when lending a trumpet to someone else.

All the best and happy new year.

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[cbtj51]

My preferences for "at home" instrument choice seem to have changed since the Bach 184 invaded my life a few short months ago! I play the 184 for much, if not most of my "fun time" playing everyday! I found myself creating public performance situations, even if they are targeted moments, in a lot of my holiday season playing. I used it exclusively for several brass ensemble Christmas Caroling performances! Great horn!!! Great experience!!! The subtle differences that I am experiencing are impacting my otherwise horn choice experiences as well! Can't imagine why it took me so long to arrive at the thrill of cornet playing!

Life is Short, find the Joy in it!

Mike
_________________
'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces

[thecoast]

My cornet and I are parting ways. It’s a very well preserved 1971 Olds Ambassador. I use a Stork Vacchiano cornet 1-1/2C and still it sounds like a trumpet. Not as fun as my Bach Omega. And my Condor flugel provides a nice dark sounding horn, so I don’t think I want to keep the cornet just to keep it. Maybe if I had a pro cornet with a non-trumpet sound I might feel differently.

[Brassnose]

I guess I’m with Mike here. Although I started on cornet (rental, presumably an Amati) 40+ years ago, it never occurred to me to go back to cornet until just pre-Covid. Since I bought my first ever cornet (the Holton in the signature) a few months back I’ve really been enjoying cornet. Although it’s a long cornet it does sound significantly different from my Bach trumpet and is a nice additional sound. Keeper.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[delano]

So you guess you are with Mike?
But Mike loves to play his high end SC Bach 184 cornet which I can understand. But I’m certainly not sure a (IMO) non really resonant student long cornet will be able to give the same playing results and joy.

And still praising the cornet will not come close to answering the OP’s question that at least statistically is a valid question.

[Brassnose]

Delano, man, what IS wrong with you? You keep (deliberately?) misunderstanding (my?) posts and making nasty comments (a fun hobby, really, haha). I wish there was an ignore button on TH and I know for a fact that other people are annoyed, too. If you think I’m posting junk, just ignore it. I did that with your stuff for some time but you can’t seem to let go. Just get over it and grow up, for heavens sake. This is the last time I’ll be responding to any of your posts - I’ve got more interesting stuff to do.

On the topic again and reworded so there are NO misunderstandings I’m with Mike in that the cornet is a great voice that both him and me seem to have ignored for way too long. It’s a pretty simple statement, really.

Also wishing everyone a late Happy New Year and a healthy and successful 2023 with much cornet fun 🥳
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[delano]

First there is no misunderstanding, I understand your posts very well and that seems to upset you. You started that you were guessing and well, guessing is just that, my conclusion was that you were guessing on wrong grounds, that’s all.

Second, my post is strictly business, you compare apples and oranges and obviously don’t want to see it. A mediocre Holton student long cornet will never turn into a high end Bach 184 shepherds crook cornet how often you will kiss it. I don’t want to be rude but your logic seems to be of the kind: a mouse is an animal, an elephant is an animal so a mouse is an elephant.

Third, you seem to need the support of others in judging me. Very, very questionable behaviour, (they used to burn witches that way).
And yes, in the end we agree: an ignore button should be a great idea!

[stuartissimo]

I guess I’m with Thecoast. When push comes to shove, besides the traditional brassband setting or solo/ensemble work, there just isn't a lot of use for cornets in the area where I live.

There are plenty of settings that include trumpets though, and for solo or small ensemble settings, the cornet effectively becomes an artistic choice, not a requirement. And while I won't deny that the cornet has its own unique sound, the bigger contrast between trumpet and flugelhorn makes the latter more usable. Especially in community/amateur settings, where the audience generally isn't able to discern the subtle differences (and I'm not skilled enough to highlight them even if they were). Even Mike pretty much states he primarily plays his cornet for his own benefit, not because he gets a ton of use out it. The main use I get from my cornet is as a backup horn for outdoors or risky gigs, or for ease of travel. The reason I even have one is because it was relatively cheap.

Yeah, I like the cornet as an instrument, but if I'm brutally honest I have little to no use for it. And I can imagine that goes for a lot of amateur trumpet players. If you're gonna own just 1 instrument that is.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[Louise Finch]

In response to the latest replies, I'm primarily a brass bander, well in my heart. In reality, I play in the following settings (community orchestra, community light orchestra etc. are the official labels of the orchestra. They differ from the symphony orchestra in playing lighter classical works, film scores, music from musicals, easy listening, pop and lighter jazz/popular swing):

A symphony orchestra - usually on Bb trumpet, sometimes on C trumpet and rarely on D or Eb trumpets. I occasionally use cornet if the part is marked cornet, i.e. We are doing the Georges Enesco Romanian Rhapsody No. 1 this term. This has both trumpet and cornet parts. Owing to the cornet I believe having valves earlier in its history, the symphony orchestra cornet parts are generally more melodic, and I tend to play them through choice.

A community orchestra - I play flute in this, having started on recorder at age 6, then flute at age 12, switching primarily to brass at age 20, but still playing flute.

A community light orchestra - I play primarily trumpet, but also cornet when the part is annotated cornet, and also for marches and other repertoire which I feel is more suited to cornet. A lot of the repertoire is similar or even the same as concert band trumpet/cornet parts (i.e. the same when it is the same arrangements scored for an orchestra rather than concert band).

A brass band - Obviously cornet

A jazz band - Trumpet, flugel and flute for some numbers.

Since I play primarily trumpet in the symphony orchestra, community light orchestra and jazz band, I rehearse out of the house more on trumpet, but I do my daily home practice on cornet. Rightly or wrongly, I use the same James R New custom top on trumpet and cornet (basically a copy of the cup end of my favourite Bach 3C). I find that on my Yamaha Xeno cornet, it gives me enough of a brass band cornet sound for principal or solo cornet, and it works well in orchestral/concert band (I occasionally dep in concert bands).

I honestly don't feel that it makes much difference whether I practice on trumpet or cornet, as I vary my approach depending on the repertoire rather than the instrument. I wouldn't choose to play cornet for a swing number, but if I did, I would approach it like a trumpet. However, I've played Bb edition of the Haydn and Hummel trumpet concertos on both trumpet and cornet. I pretty much approach them identically on trumpet and cornet, as it is the same repertoire.

How I see it, is that I use an appropriate approach for all repertoire. Some repertoire is more suited to trumpet or cornet. If I use the wrong one, I have to work harder to get an appropriate sound and an appropriate approach/articulation.

As an example, I use to use my Bach 184ML cornet in a previous brass band, as we had a matched set (mine is my own). Although no brighter in sound, the Bach 184ML has a more concentrated sound and articulates differently in my opinion, to a more typical British Brass Band short model cornet, such as the Besson Sovereign/Prestige or Yamaha Maestro/Xeno/Neo. The Besson and Yamaha short model cornets have a broader sound profile and seem to articulate less definitely. I remember the first time I took my Bach 184ML to what is now my previous brass band, and played it in a section of Besson and Yamaha cornets. It was no brighter, but the more concentrated sound and more definite sounding articulations made it sound like I was playing a trumpet in a section of cornets.

I cannot explain what I mean by more definite articulations. Maybe it is a product of the greater core and more concentrated sound, rather than a stand alone difference, but all I know that if I tongue identically on my Bach 184ML which has more core and more concentrated sound, to on a Besson or Yamaha cornet with a broader, more diffuse sound quality, the articulations come over stronger on the Bach 184ML. In a brass band like my current one and first one, in which the bandmaster likes in my current brass band very definite articulations when marked (accents done to their maximum lol), and in my first band, his motto was separate those notes, the Bach 184ML is fine, but in my last brass band, in which the conductor favoured more of a legato approach and less definite accents, having a cornet that articulates slightly less definitely is an advantage.

I love my Bach 184ML, but although it sounds plenty cornet-like, especially when played with a cornet approach, I have a recording of me playing orchestral excerpts, and I'm honestly not sure whether I recorded it on my Bach 184ML cornet or Bach 37 trumpet. I say that the trumpet is slightly brighter in sound, but on a recording, I honestly cannot tell the difference. I'd never be uncertain if I compared a recording of my Yamaha Xeno II trumpet and Yamaha Xeno cornet. My approach would be the same, but there would be that subtle difference in broadness of sound and articulation, which irrespective of brightness, makes my trumpet sound like a trumpet and cornet sound like a cornet.

I've played lead trumpet in a big band on my Bach 184ML cornet, but I wouldn't want to do it on my Xeno cornet. It would just be too hard work to achieve the result I was looking for. I've played my Xeno cornet in my jazz band and it works great for things like Ain't Misbehavin' but not great for Nelson Riddle Frank Sinatra arrangements.

This is my 10 pence worth on this topic anyhow.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[GeorgeB]

Delano is who he is, a fellow who doesn't pull his punches. What he posts may sound like sarcasm, but it is just him, Delano.
Is he always correct ? Of course not. IMHO, though, he is correct more often than not. Anyway, if you don't like him, just ignore him.
George
_________________
GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

[stuartissimo]

Quite impressive Lou. At your skill level I can see how a cornet can have some added benefit in non-brassband settings. Other than the brassband though, do you think that the music would be truly lacking if trumpets were used for the cornet parts?

Another issue that I run into is that, on the rare occasions that the music we play does call for cornets, the rest of the section simply doesn't have a cornet. And there's little point in bringing a cornet to a trumpetfight...
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces