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alanjk
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Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 47
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 Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:33 pm Post subject: Compression Training System |
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I've seen ads for a Compression Training System for brass as a means of building up the embouchure. Has anyone used this? Was it useful or is it no better than any of the bazillion exercises designed for this purpose along with just plain playing? Please respond only if you've had direct experience with this.
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jazzjezz
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Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 108
Location: SE UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I backed Larry's Kickstarter campaign at the outset and have been using the CTS for more than 18 months now.
I like it, I like the fact that the central item is a gauge and therefore the use can be targeted and tracked. I like that it is off the horn and silent.
Over the course of the time I have used it my endurance and range has increased. More importantly the quality of my sound has become more defined.
Is this because of the use of the CTS? Who knows? Over the period of usage I have been able to increase my "numbers" on the gauge.
I would recommend it. |
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Denny Schreffler
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
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Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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It adds objectivity to, and addresses a type of strength (and feeling) that is helpful (essential) for a certain type of playing, and which is impossible to gain thru exercises on the horn.
It's no more a gimmick for us than a barbell or weight machine is for general-body strength building.
Recommended.
—Denny |
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aaron
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 249
Location: London, ON
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:44 am Post subject: |
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The device sold through this program is called a "sphygmomanometer." It's a manual blood pressure dial with their branding added to it. You can find your own sphygmomanometer much cheaper on amazon or at your local pharmacy/medical supply store. The default hose will fit right in your mouthpiece. You can also try things like blocked buzzing, which will cost you $0.
Some trumpet players have raised serious concerns about this device: (1) producing high air pressure in a closed (no airflow) system is fundamentally different than playing trumpet (2) regular use of this device could have negative health effects.
I find the author's claims outlandish. In every online exchange with critics I have seen, they have been extremely hostile and secretive about their methods. |
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Denny Schreffler
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Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| aaron wrote: | The device sold through this program is called a "sphygmomanometer." It's a manual blood pressure dial with their branding added to it. You can find your own sphygmomanometer much cheaper on amazon or at your local pharmacy/medical supply store. The default hose will fit right in your mouthpiece. You can also try things like blocked buzzing, which will cost you $0.
Some trumpet players have raised serious concerns about this device: (1) producing high air pressure in a closed (no airflow) system is fundamentally different than playing trumpet (2) regular use of this device could have negative health effects.
I find the author's claims outlandish. In every online exchange with critics I have seen, they have been extremely hostile and secretive about their methods. |
Hi, aaron,
•Some trumpet players have raised serious concerns about this device
•I find the author's claims outlandish
•In every online exchange with critics I have seen, they have been extremely hostile and secretive about their methods
Without responding to particular points in your post (except to say that Larry teaches the blocked mouthpiece drill in his private lessons), if your negative opinion of Larry’s “Compression Training System” is correct, then you are arguing against the published endorsements of ...
►Arturo Sandoval,
►Ron Romm
►Mike Lovatt
►Willie Murillo
►Jim Manley
►Mac Gollehon
►Rashawn Ross, and
►Danny Falcone
— https://www.trumpetlegacy.com/
And, I will invite you to explain your cost/benefit analysis of purchasing a sphygmo dial on its own versus one that is part of a specialized and documented strength training system for developing and maintaining “at the far end of the bell curve” trumpet embouchures.
—Denny
Arturo Sandoval — I’ve been using it, and I highly recommend this incredible tool!
Ronald Romm— Friends, this system works! It is not just for players that aim to play high and loud, but for the rest of us! Check it out! I repeat, it works!
Mike Lovatt — Thank you Larry for producing a tool that helps us trumpet players go to the next level with our chops! The CTS is a regular part of my routine now.
Willie Murillo — If you don’t have the CTS, I highly recommend getting it. It’s affordable and it’ll keep you in shape.
Jim Manley — The CTS is a great device. Larry has developed a great product for less than the cost of a lesson!
Mac Gollehon — The CTS is top shelf! It strengthens all components of the embouchure in a much more comprehensive way than the other devices presently on the market.
Rashawn Ross — I gotta give it up to my man Larry Meregillano for taking the time to show me how to build that muscle with his Compression Training System Thanks, Larry!!! This system is awesome!!!
Daniel Falcone — The CTS is highly effective in keeping the musculature of the face strong and it has allowed me to not bring my trumpet when on vacation and still come back as strong as I was before I left. That’s pretty impressive. |
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aaron
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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Location: London, ON
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you for providing an example of the kind of response I was referring to. |
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Denny Schreffler
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Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| aaron wrote: | | Thank you for providing an example of the kind of response I was referring to. |
•In every online exchange with critics I have seen, they have been extremely hostile and secretive
aaron,
Forgive me, but I don’t see anything either hostile or secretive in my post.
I won’t ask you to explain why you feel that way about it. You seem to have developed your negatively critical position without applying, or even trying, the system in your own practice regimen and by disregarding the opinions of others who have.
Please defend your position on Larry Meregillano's CTS against the glowing recommendations by the esteemed artists who allow Larry to post their opinions (as well as their personal images) on his Compression Training System website.
—Denny |
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Rapier232
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 1323
Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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I am not in the same league as those players, but I also recommend the CTS system. It’s just weight training for the embouchure. I’ve just been away for a month, visiting family. No trumpet playing, however I did take my CTS and on my return to band my chops were in great condition.
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kalijah
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Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| These may be worthwhile as a cross-training exercise to strengthen the embouchure. Nothing you can't do with a blocked, or partially blocked mouthpiece. |
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ScottA
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Posts: 618
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:37 am Post subject: |
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I have used the CTS with mixed results. I made a friend, who plays in a major U.S. orchestra and is open to this type of product, aware of the device. His comment after ordering and trying it out was something like "It's interesting but that's not how I play the trumpet so I don't want to pursue it."
It does seem to me that with the exception of Ronald Romm the endorsers are primarily commercial style players. The high compression level required for much of that style of playing will certainly benefit from the CTS method. Players who are more "flow" focused may not find it as useful.
Larry has done a great job in coming up with this product and many players have benefitted from it. Personally I have found the aperture tool to be the most helpful for me. It is very reasonably priced so if your curious give it a try.
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Denny Schreffler
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | These may be worthwhile as a cross-training exercise to strengthen the embouchure. Nothing you can't do with a blocked, or partially blocked mouthpiece. |
Yes, there is something that can't be done by blocking or constricting a mpc — a quantified, initial level of compression performance can be established. Short- and long-term goals can be set, both for measured compression and for objective-and-subjective range/endurance/"power"/etc performance when playing the trumpet
And, yes, ScottA is correct — It does seem to me that with the exception of Ronald Romm the endorsers are primarily commercial style players. The high compression level required for much of that style of playing will certainly benefit from the CTS method. Players who are more "flow" focused may not find it as useful. — the extreme compression enhancement that could be facilitated by this particular training, might not directly or necessarily benefit non-commercial players.
—Denny |
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stuartissimo
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Joined: 17 Dec 2021
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Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Rapier232 wrote: | | It’s just weight training for the embouchure. |
| ScottA wrote: | | His comment was something like "It's interesting but that's not how I play the trumpet so I don't want to pursue it." |
That's pretty much the reason why I don't feel the need to try the CTS. If someone writes that it works wonders for them I'll take their word for it. But as for the whole 'muscle building' style of playing; I tried that for years and it was a dead end for me.
| ScottA wrote: | | Players who are more "flow" focused may not find it as useful. |
If not already on there, this would be a useful note to add to the CTS website imho.
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Last edited by stuartissimo on Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Rapier232
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | | Rapier232 wrote: | | It’s just weight training for the embouchure. |
| ScottA wrote: | | His comment was something like "It's interesting but that's not how I play the trumpet so I don't want to pursue it." |
That's pretty much the reason why I don't feel the need to try the CTS. If someone writes that it works wonders for them I'll take their word for it. But as for the whole 'muscle building' style of playing; I tried that for years and it was a dead end for me.
| Rapier232 wrote: | | Players who are more "flow" focused may not find it as useful. |
If not already on there, this would be a useful note to add to the CTS website imho. |
I DID NOT SAY THAT! Please correct your misquote!
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"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
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Eclipse Flugel
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kalijah
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Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But as for the whole 'muscle building' style of playing; I tried that for years and it was a dead end for me. |
No one is suggesting that amount of effort is required for normal playing. The more strength you have, the less effort that is required to play in terms of percentage of maximum muscular strength.
I prefer using Caruso calisthenics and working the muscles while actually playing tones. But even that is balanced with LOTS of fine control and efficiency practice. So, what I do is effectively reduce the effort required to play while occasionally training for strength. The music performance lies between these, and it benefits from both. |
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stuartissimo
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | No one is suggesting that amount of effort is required for normal playing. The more strength you have, the less effort that is required to play in terms of percentage of maximum muscular strength. |
I'm concerned a tool like that would get me in the wrong mindset for playing and cause me to overblow. I already struggle enough with not falling back into old habits during performances due to stress. I don't need something adding to that.
I don't argue that it doesn't work wonders for some, I'm merely pointing out what it is about the tool that makes it unappealing to me.
| Rapier232 wrote: | | I DID NOT SAY THAT! Please correct your misquote! |
My apologies, it was a copy/paste error. I corrected the error.
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1955 Olds Super cornet
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| ScottA wrote: | | Players who are more "flow" focused [contrasted with Compression Training System] may not find it as useful. |
What does that mean?
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chapahi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Denny Schreffler"] | aaron wrote: |
Please defend your position on Larry Meregillano's CTS against the glowing recommendations by the esteemed artists who allow Larry to post their opinions (as well as their personal images) on his Compression Training System website.
—Denny |
These esteemed artists were already great players before CTS.
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Trumpjerele
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Just a side note to this interesting discussion.
The goal of Caruso's calisthenics is not to develop muscular strength, but balance.
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delano
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:07 am Post subject: |
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This discussion reminds me of some experiment Robert Schumann did.
When he was a piano student with Friedrich Wieck, Robert was annoyed with the force in his ringfingers, they were not equal. So he made, without discussing this with his teacher, a construction with strings and counterweights to strengthen those vingers. The result was some kind of paralysis that finished his piano career.
But every generation seem to have to learn again. |
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Gottfried Reiche
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:29 am Post subject: |
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Larry's a meathead trumpet player, both in how he plays as well as his attitude towards others. He's ran people off forums before, and he himself has left in a huff.
I bought one of his devices to try, but it's definitely not for me.
Also, a word about endorsements: you can't necessarily trust them. A few of those people on that list are good friends of mine and have told me that they aren't regular users of the device. One told me he only tried it once.
So there you go.
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