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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 231 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 2:12 pm Post subject: Schiller Frankfurt trumpet |
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In one of the local pawn shops I came across a Schiller Frankfurt trumpet. I've never heard of that brand before. Their website (https://www.schillerinstruments.com/about-us/) says the company is from Germany, established in the late 1800s. However, I've never heard of this brand at all, and looking across TH forums there seems to be a general concensus that this is a Chinese knock off. But others say it's a decent horn.
I'm not looking to buy it, just trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before. Sooo..., curious minds want to know, is Schiller really a horn worth $2600 (marked down to $596 on their website ) or is it really just a POS? _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12688 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Schiller Frankfurt trumpet |
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rhatheway wrote: | In one of the local pawn shops I came across a Schiller Frankfurt trumpet. I've never heard of that brand before. Their website (https://www.schillerinstruments.com/about-us/) says the company is from Germany, established in the late 1800s. However, I've never heard of this brand at all, and looking across TH forums there seems to be a general concensus that this is a Chinese knock off. But others say it's a decent horn.
I'm not looking to buy it, just trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before. Sooo..., curious minds want to know, is Schiller really a horn worth $2600 (marked down to $596 on their website ) or is it really just a POS? |
🤔 I would ask myself “do I trust a company that sells brand new products discounted by $2000 to $596?”
For me that is a resounding no, but ymmv. |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2184 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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According to the all-knowing internet, Schiller instruments are designed in Germany but manufactured in Shanghai, China. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 394 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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I've stepped up to defend Schiller/Jim Laabs before. TH consensus or not, of course it's built in China.
"Designed in Germany/USA/etc" but built in (__________) ◄ fill in that blank, is something that we should be wise to after more than a few decades of it. Of course it's meant to mislead, if not deceive, but that's the way things are. If you ask Laabs where the horn is manufactured, they will tell you the truth. Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and Jim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.
Of the four or five different Schiller B-flat, mezzo-soprano instruments that I've played since 2016, each played exceptionally well and had pro-build feel and finish.
Not a bad idea to carry a mpc with you if you think that you might run into a horn for sale, which might be anytime. If it plays well enough that you think that you might regret not getting it, pawn shops will negotiate — they're usually better at it than we are. Be willing to walk away if you don't think that it's worth it.
To address the OP's main point ►trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before◄, Schiller gets a very bad rap from players and posers who have never played one (or a good one), so don't buy one thinking that you'll be able to sell it for a profit (or even a wash), but if it's a player, don't hesitate.
—Denny |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12688 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Denny Schreffler wrote: | Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and gJim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.
—Denny |
I understand the wink wink nod nod nature of MSRP but a $2000 markdown is not normal for me. Maybe it’s a cultural difference? |
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Denny Schreffler Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 394 Location: Tucson
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Denny Schreffler wrote: | Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and gJim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.
—Denny |
I understand the wink wink nod nod nature of MSRP but a $2000 markdown is not normal for me. Maybe it’s a cultural difference? |
I just ignore that kind of thing anymore. Laabs has been honest in all of my dealings with them.
Ever buy anything from Temu or the original version of AliBaba? 88% discount with FREE SHIPPING. Amazon and eBay are doing a less rediculous version of the same thing with the same vendors
But, you're right. The super-inflated sticker price makes Schiller/Laabs look like scammers at worst and shady retailers at best, but I've never experienced anything but honest dealings and agreeable negotiations with them.
—Denny |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 231 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Denny Schreffler wrote: | I've stepped up to defend Schiller/Jim Laabs before. TH consensus or not, of course it's built in China.
"Designed in Germany/USA/etc" but built in (__________) ◄ fill in that blank, is something that we should be wise to after more than a few decades of it. Of course it's meant to mislead, if not deceive, but that's the way things are. If you ask Laabs where the horn is manufactured, they will tell you the truth. Same thing for an inflated MSRP. The "reduced to" price is "the real price," and Jim Laabs will negotiate on some instruments, so the out-the-door price might be a bit lower than advertised.
Of the four or five different Schiller B-flat, mezzo-soprano instruments that I've played since 2016, each played exceptionally well and had pro-build feel and finish.
Not a bad idea to carry a mpc with you if you think that you might run into a horn for sale, which might be anytime. If it plays well enough that you think that you might regret not getting it, pawn shops will negotiate — they're usually better at it than we are. Be willing to walk away if you don't think that it's worth it.
To address the OP's main point ►trying to learn more about brands I've never heard of before◄, Schiller gets a very bad rap from players and posers who have never played one (or a good one), so don't buy one thinking that you'll be able to sell it for a profit (or even a wash), but if it's a player, don't hesitate.
—Denny |
I might take a mp and go back and try it, just to see what it feels like. I've never cared that much about whether I'm playing a "brand name" or other popular horn (which is why one of my cornets is a Reynolds Medalist, but it plays easily and has the tone and sound I like). In fact I often tend to go the opposite direction from what the crowd usually does.
And besides, I'm a better negotiator than most pawn shops are any day of the week. I've scored some really good deals over the years on gear (amps, pedals, guitars, etc.) that I've purchased from numerous different pawn shops because I'm good at the negotiating game (which is what it really is).
Oh, and as for reselling instruments, I've hardly ever done that, which is why my gear closet continually has more instruments in it than I can play at one time. Oh well... But if I do get rid of instruments, I typically donate them to a school where they can be played and used by students; I've never bought instruments simply to flip them and try to make money. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 713
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 2:52 pm Post subject: Schiller instruments |
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Don't buy a Schiller musical instrument. I bought a Schiller professional cornet. Both braces had to be resoldered and numerous seams.
They look pretty, but not any amount is worth buying one. _________________ Current cornets and mouthpieces:
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
Blessing Scholastic cornet (waiting on delivery)
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank
Jupiter 9e (5 C) short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 b short shank mouthpiece |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 715 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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I got a Shiller C trumpet on eBay that looked new, but didn't have the 1st piston, and needed 2 top caps, 3 bottom caps, 2 finger buttons, and springs, valve guides and felts. I have tried any number of Chinese parts and nothing will fit. I called the Shiller number and Laabs number, sent emails, left messages, and was very politely and warmly blown off. Sounded real friendly, talked to Mr. Laab, never followed up or returned my contacts.
I certainly am not impressed. _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8346 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Jim Laabs isn't quite local to me, but it's regional.
I sometimes saw kids show up with Schiller instruments for their band appointments. I was not impressed. They were not well made and often had pieces snap off. The materials were not of high quality, nor was the construction.
These were theoretically priced very reasonably, but frankly, still priced too high.
Basically at the Cecilio or Mendini level, in my opinion. $150-200 horns priced at $400-500.
The allusions to Germany and design and "Frankfurt" are not worth considering.
If you want to roll the dice on overpriced Chinese specials, go for it - just be aware what you're signing up for. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 231 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 6:47 am Post subject: |
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Interesting, from doing more research online and reading more reviews here on TH, I've come to the conclusion that while Schiller/Jim Laabs may have dealt fairly with one person here, all the rest of you seem to have had a much different experience.
Since numbers don't lie, the overwhelming evidence indicates that this is probably NOT a good quality horn, so I'm not even going to waste any time trying it, even for fun (even though I could probably pick it up for $100 or so).
Thanks to all who've provided your feedback. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58
Last edited by rhatheway on Thu May 23, 2024 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2184 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 6:59 am Post subject: |
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If I ever buy one it would be to make a lamp out of it. _________________ Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 231 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2024 7:15 am Post subject: |
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spitvalve wrote: | If I ever buy one it would be to make a lamp out of it. |
LOL!
Actually, not a bad idea, but I can find a $10 horn at a lot of places that would work just as well for that! _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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