Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 12 Location: Cleburne, Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:13 am Post subject: Re: Looking for darker sound on flugelhorn
"You and I had the same trumpet teacher. I met Harold Lieberman at the Ramapo Summer Jazz Workshops, and studied with him for a couple years back in high school."
I studied with him from 1976 through 1978. He really taught me a lot of things I still very much use today. Don't know if you've kept up, but he died two years ago of natural causes. A great trumpeter and sorely missed! _________________ Schilke X3L - Schilke S22C - Besson Meha 4-valve piccolo - Couesnon flugelhorn - Yamaha Xeno cornet
Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 12 Location: Cleburne, Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:17 am Post subject:
Thanks for all the suggestions. I decided to order the Stork 5FL Vacchiano as it is reasonably priced and multiple folks seem to like Stork's mouthpieces. While I'd have liked to go with a Schilke or Reeves, I didn't want to drop $250 or more on a mouthpiece I could end up hating. I'll post an initial impression follow-up once I've had a chance to take it for a test drive. Who knows? I may already have the mouthpiece I'll end up liking the best. _________________ Schilke X3L - Schilke S22C - Besson Meha 4-valve piccolo - Couesnon flugelhorn - Yamaha Xeno cornet
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:17 am Post subject:
trickg wrote:
Jon Arnold wrote:
I have a Warburton flugel piece for my Couesnon and it sounds real dark and fluffy. Go with a deeper one.
What exactly does "fluffy" mean when referring to a brass instrument? Do you mean airy? Foofy? Diffuse? That's not a quality I'd want in a flugel sound.
I've used a Schilke 16F2 for years. A long time ago a mentor of mine at my first Army band duty station at Fort Meade gave me that mouthpiece to use when we started using flugels for certain tunes in the brass quintet. I must have had a different mouthpiece at some point because right when I got there I was issued a brand new 4 valve Getzen flugel (that I didn't particularly like) and that I later switched to a Yamaha 631, but I distinctly remember him giving me this mouthpiece.
It's a big, deep mouthpiece, but I've always really liked the sound I get on it - it's big, round and dark.
I've posted this clip probably close to a dozen times, but that was the mouthpiece I was using when I recorded this. The flugel I had at the time was a Kanstul CCF925 with a 100% copper bell.
I love your tone! Thanks for sharing that clip. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel
Do you need to play flugelhorn above the staff much? What sort of music do you play? If you're playing jazz, my guess is it's mostly in the staff. If you're playing Feels So Good and stuff like that, a real deep cup will work against you.
If it's ballads and in-the-staff lines, you can email Flip Oakes (flip@flipoakes.com) and see what flugelhorn mouthpieces he has in stock. His standard model is deeper than most other manufacturer's models, including Denis Wick. His Extreme Flugelhorn mouthpiece is shaped something like a french horn mouthpiece with a #2 throat bore. That will give you the darkest, smoothest sound available, but you have to supply the chops for it. If you play with good technique, the Extreme plays very well. Don't ask it to do upper register stuff, though. If you gravitate toward bebop, or other technical genre, you should probably get something else. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Yes, everyone's different, . . . I'm just asking if all things are equal.
BTW, notice his range. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:52 pm Post subject:
kehaulani wrote:
Does anyone know a good mouthpiece for this kind of sound?
Decades ago I played with an older player who sounded absolutely marvelous on his Couesnon flugel with a Schilke 15BF -- a 15B trumpet cup on a French flugel shank. He didn't have the darkest, "fluffiest" tone, but it was definitely a sweet flugel sound and he could get all over the horn, from high to low. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski
Yes, everyone's different, . . . I'm just asking if all things are equal.
BTW, notice his range.
Kehaulani,
Thanks for this! It's been a while, but I'm dusting off LPs that haven't been visited for a long while (too long)! My Friday has just turned into Art Farmer Day! Art Farmer, like very many, dare I say all of the greats, has a unique "sound" and approach that is immediately recognizable! Recreating that "sound" entails more components than a mouthpiece alone can provide. Art Farmer's sound concept of himself is the key ingredient!
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces
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