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Trollet Regular Member
Joined: 10 May 2020 Posts: 62 Location: Söderhamn, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:32 am Post subject: Warm sound + not too open horns |
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Hi guys!
Looking for horn recommendations on my endless safari. Looking for a horn with some resistance, think of a bach 37 with 25 leadpipe, but with a teutonic, warm sound with lots of spread. I'm soo not into the big blowing horns, i want a medium resistance with a warm sound. Is the martin Committee #2 bore good? Schilke B7 perhaps?
Thanks. _________________ Horns:
Yamaha ytr-6335H
Looking for a flugelhorn!
Mpcs:
GR 64SZ* - and a bunch more
Bach 7FL |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1804
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm happy to delete this if somebody has specific info on the question you answered, but for me, warmth is easier achieved with a mouthpiece change rather than a horn change. I've heard cornets sound like trumpets with the right mouthpiece and vice versa.
If we look at this thread from 2007 about Chris Botti's setup (https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67189) we see that while he is playing a committee, the mouthpiece is also exactly what you need to achieve the sound he does
Quote: | Chris plays on an older New York Bach 3 with a 13 throat for his primary to go with the #3 bore Committee and a New York 3 with a 19 throat for his #2 bore. |
Go deeper cup for a warmer sound but to keep the blow efficient, don't alter the throat and keep the backbore conservative. If it's wildly out of tune play with the backbore. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2053 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:02 am Post subject: |
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I agree that you might consider a mouthpiece change, but if you decide to go with a new trumpet, a Getzen 3051 is worth considering. Bach 25-style leadpipe, and a 72-style heavy gold brass bell. Wonderfully rich, warm sound, and still fairly versatile. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9057 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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"Looking for horn for a horn with some resistance, think of a Bach 37 with 25 leadpipe, but with a Teutonic, warm sound with lots of spread."
I think this conjures up different sounds fir different people. What players' sound best demonstrates the sound you seek? Maybe a link? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2167 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Bach Vindabona
Rotary |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2448
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Jerry wrote: | Bach Vindabona
Rotary |
Or in piston: Bach 180MLV72G/25
Really really warm? Calicchio 3/9 Copper Solo _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Warm sound + not too open horns |
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Trollet wrote: | Hi guys!
Looking for horn recommendations on my endless safari. Looking for a horn with some resistance, think of a bach 37 with 25 leadpipe, but with a teutonic, warm sound with lots of spread. I'm soo not into the big blowing horns, i want a medium resistance with a warm sound. Is the martin Committee #2 bore good? Schilke B7 perhaps?
Thanks. |
Old Handcraft Imperials are super horns too, at much less ££
The Conn Connstellation 38B I thought was capable of that very buttery smooth warm sound - with the right mouthpiece. It'll also take down a wall with the right mouthpiece
You might also consider a Puje or something modern designed around your concepts!
Best,
Mike _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 10205 Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Best, cheapest way to get a warmer sound is get an HT3-JAZZ mouthpiece from Steve Dillard on https://www.horntrader.com/product/ht3-jazz/ _________________ Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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mr oakmount Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2022 Posts: 152 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:42 am Post subject: |
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bach_again is spot-on.
My first trumpet instructor had a Conn 38B, and when he played softly, it was as warm as any trumpet has a right to be. But it also really lit up when he pushed it.
Or go the whole hog for a Fehrer/Votruba/Schagerl/Lechner/... "Viennese" Rotary Valve Trumpet with a Breslmair G2 mouthpiece |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 632 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:30 am Post subject: |
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mr oakmount wrote: | bach_again is spot-on.
My first trumpet instructor had a Conn 38B, and when he played softly, it was as warm as any trumpet has a right to be. But it also really lit up when he pushed it.
Or go the whole hog for a Fehrer/Votruba/Schagerl/Lechner/... "Viennese" Rotary Valve Trumpet with a Breslmair G2 mouthpiece |
I would add Kanstul's near-clone of the 38B, the 991. I can attest that the right mouthpieces will make it piercingly bright or flugelhorn dark. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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kramergfy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 992 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Stick with the 37; get a deep mouthpiece and dark backbore with the same rim you play, then get a medium bore tuning slide.
Or as others suggested, try a 72 Vindabona. It will blow familiar like a 37 and act like a 37 intonation wise, but have a much broader and darker core sound. _________________ "I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Thread killer. |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 731 Location: SE US
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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abontrumpet wrote: | I'm happy to delete this if somebody has specific info on the question you answered, but for me, warmth is easier achieved with a mouthpiece change rather than a horn change. I've heard cornets sound like trumpets with the right mouthpiece and vice versa. |
This has been my experience as well!
Or a Reeves C2J for a similar experience, sound wise but maybe a little more expensive!
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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mr oakmount Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2022 Posts: 152 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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Mouthpieces ... well ... it depends.
Yes, of course it is true. A change of mouthpiece will change the sound of the trumpet, radically so. I do try to find 2 to 3 different mouthpieces to complement each of my instruments to give me a range of sounds and characteristics.
However, every trumpet has its "comfort zone". My Adams A5 is happiest with narrow backbores and shallowish cups. Yes, with a big mouthpiece I can make it sound like a "teutonic" classical/orchestral trumpet, but it will cause problems (very open in the high range, intonation), so I might go to my Yamaha 6335GH instead (which I would not use for "commercial", even though I do have a screamer mouthpiece for it).
Yes, do find a mouthpiece for the sound you like, but not to push your instrument out of the zone where its strengths lie. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2071 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Rotary trumpet or a mouthpiece such as Curry TF or TC would probably work. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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JeffTheHornGuy Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2013 Posts: 174 Location: Boston
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:06 am Post subject: |
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I'd second the Puje - I have one, and the blow definitely has that cornet style resistance yet a nice warmth and responsiveness. (I'm also selling mine, but that doesn't change my recommendation!) _________________ Trumpet player in Couch
Puje "Super T"
1970 Bach Stradivarius 37
Custom Lawler C7
Electronic music producer |
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Locutus2k Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 635 Location: Rome, Italy
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Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:37 am Post subject: |
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First we need to understand what you mean for "warm". I see often a confusion between "warm" and "dark". Chet Baker has a "dark sound", Harry James has a "warm" sound. With this in mind, assuming you're looking for a "warm" harry james like sound, my suggestion is to look at the mouthpiece. For MY playing i can have a "warm" sound using medium shallow pieces with a compressed backbore (the Curry 5Z is my choice for this kind of sound, but to each his own of course). Once you've found a piece that gives you the sound you're looking for you can start looking for the best horn to match. The ultimate in "warm" sound in my opinion is a piece as suggested plus a vintage Conn (the 8b, rare to find, is the warmer -always imho). _________________ ------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
------------------------ |
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Trollet Regular Member
Joined: 10 May 2020 Posts: 62 Location: Söderhamn, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the many replies! I have many different mouthpieces and have "flugel" cup mouthpieces, but i would really like to stick to two mouthpieces, 1 for lead, and 1 for allround (C cup). I dont want to have to go to the very deeps cups, but still have a warmer sound. So a horn sooo dark, it sounds too dark for allround work with a C cup.
I have found the trumpets with a very broad big sound is very open in nature, is their any way to find a horrn that can have this broad nature without being huge. Maybe these huge belled trumpets such as lotus solo max or taylor is the way to go? Pls give me more thoughts i love hearing from you'all!
(Deep inside i know practicing my sound concept is the real solution here but hey go with me!) _________________ Horns:
Yamaha ytr-6335H
Looking for a flugelhorn!
Mpcs:
GR 64SZ* - and a bunch more
Bach 7FL |
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Trollet Regular Member
Joined: 10 May 2020 Posts: 62 Location: Söderhamn, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:29 am Post subject: |
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JeffTheHornGuy wrote: | I'd second the Puje - I have one, and the blow definitely has that cornet style resistance yet a nice warmth and responsiveness. (I'm also selling mine, but that doesn't change my recommendation!) |
i actually had a Puje about a year ago. But damn that thing was BRIGHT, craaaazy bright, ofcourse depending on the setup it can be anything, but that particular horn was very bright. Would have played lead on it if it wasn't a Puje _________________ Horns:
Yamaha ytr-6335H
Looking for a flugelhorn!
Mpcs:
GR 64SZ* - and a bunch more
Bach 7FL |
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Trollet Regular Member
Joined: 10 May 2020 Posts: 62 Location: Söderhamn, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:30 am Post subject: |
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mr oakmount wrote: | Mouthpieces ... well ... it depends.
Yes, of course it is true. A change of mouthpiece will change the sound of the trumpet, radically so. I do try to find 2 to 3 different mouthpieces to complement each of my instruments to give me a range of sounds and characteristics.
However, every trumpet has its "comfort zone". My Adams A5 is happiest with narrow backbores and shallowish cups. Yes, with a big mouthpiece I can make it sound like a "teutonic" classical/orchestral trumpet, but it will cause problems (very open in the high range, intonation), so I might go to my Yamaha 6335GH instead (which I would not use for "commercial", even though I do have a screamer mouthpiece for it).
Yes, do find a mouthpiece for the sound you like, but not to push your instrument out of the zone where its strengths lie. |
I like your thinking, i want a trumpet with very strong strengths towards the big mellow spectrum. _________________ Horns:
Yamaha ytr-6335H
Looking for a flugelhorn!
Mpcs:
GR 64SZ* - and a bunch more
Bach 7FL |
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Trollet Regular Member
Joined: 10 May 2020 Posts: 62 Location: Söderhamn, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 5:37 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | "Looking for horn for a horn with some resistance, think of a Bach 37 with 25 leadpipe, but with a Teutonic, warm sound with lots of spread."
I think this conjures up different sounds fir different people. What players' sound best demonstrates the sound you seek? Maybe a link? |
I have alot of "trumpet heroes", for a dark sound i like Wynton, Hargrove, Tony Glausi, Till Bronner. Smokey (air in the sound) is probably a common factor among them. That is more dependent on how i play ofcourse. _________________ Horns:
Yamaha ytr-6335H
Looking for a flugelhorn!
Mpcs:
GR 64SZ* - and a bunch more
Bach 7FL |
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