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gwood66
Veteran Member
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 301
Location: South of Chicago
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 Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| JazzyJP wrote: | | Brassnose wrote: | | Ha, I was just going to suggest GR 65 or 66 series. VERY nice pieces with a good presence and focus and a comfortable rim. I switched from Monette to GR (before I went to AR) and found the GR pieces a much better match for me than the Big M pieces. |
I’d love to be able to try some. Most stay in a similar range, but I’ve seen a few different sizes of GRs recommended for 3C players. Which is nice because peoples lips are different and have different needs but I’m not exactly sure where I fit in. Many report the Bach 3C being around 16.89mm. The Curry 3C is also measured there but I’m wondering if the bite or alpha angle is causing it to feel just a hair large.
I definitely don’t like a sharp bite, but some consider the 3C to be on the sharp side. For me it’s just about perfect. I don’t notice any bite, very comfortable. How does the rim of the GR compare to one’s you’ve tried?
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I remember the Curry rim being much more rounded and I couldn't really get past that. I transitioned from the Shew Jazz to the 66MS. I don't believe it is quite as flat as the 3C or Bobby Shew. Not significantly different. I stuck with it because I liked what was coming out of the bell. If you want the same feel as the 3C you can check out the GR 3 Series which have rims similar to the 3C.
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Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345 |
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MisterBighorn
Regular Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2022
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| My favorite "3C" is the Yamaha 15B4. It's just a tad wider than the 14B4 but plays and feels and sounds better IMHO. Great flexibility, easy to play, more comfortable than the 14. Probably close to a Mount Vernon 3C in diameter. |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2022 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JazzyJP wrote: | | Biggest difference to me is that the Yamaha doesn’t feel as open. Rims being similar across multiple pieces is important to me. Do you have any experience with the 14D4 or 14E4 on trumpet? |
Though I played a 14B4 for several years I confess I didn't like the sound as much as that of the Bachs, particularly the 1.5C. I've never had reason to try out the deeper Yamaha pieces.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:19 am Post subject: |
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To the OP: I see I forgot about the Yamaha 14E4. Nothing wrong with that mouthpiece, I own one for my rotary trumpet but IMO it’s not a good mp for general use. It’s a typical rotary mouthpiece with a deep cup, a #24 bore, a very wide bb and a very soft mellow tone. In fact too much for me, I know Hans Gansch plays a 16E4 but he lives on another trumpet planet than me. But I am not you.
Last edited by delano on Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: |
Though I played a 14B4 for several years I confess I didn't like the sound as much as that of the Bachs, particularly the 1.5C. I've never had reason to try out the deeper Yamaha pieces. |
The sound maybe? |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | cheiden wrote: |
Though I played a 14B4 for several years I confess I didn't like the sound as much as that of the Bachs, particularly the 1.5C. I've never had reason to try out the deeper Yamaha pieces. |
The sound maybe? |
I'm not trying to imply that there's no reason. Only stating that I've not felt the need to pursue it.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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iiipopes
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Please read my thread and all the great posts about backbores. I am a 3C player. I also have several variants. To summarize, on my King Super 20:
3C with stock #10 backbore - goes flat in the upper register
3C with a #76 backbore - works well with the trumpet, and is my primary mouthpiece on that horn
Shew Jazz - sharp on third space C
Yammy 14B4 - flat on top of the staff G
They all have essentially the same rim, cup, and throat. The real differences are in the backbores. I do not have any experience with some of the other mouthpieces you reference. Thanks for posting your experience.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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Mauri
Regular Member
Joined: 15 May 2022
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Personally I recently landed on the standard Pickett 3C. The best 3C I've ever had. |
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iiipopes
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 555
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Mauri wrote: | | Personally I recently landed on the standard Pickett 3C. The best 3C I've ever had. |
Great! Why?
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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JazzyJP
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Nov 2022
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Got my new Bach Strad 37! Testing my 3C variants. I’ve been able to weed out quite of options. Currently between Bach’s 3Cs and Curry. I’d love to try out a GR, but that will take a trip as I’d like to do a consult going that route. Seems to make the most sense. I’ll post updates on what’s working for me. |
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Croquethed
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 614
Location: Oakville, CT
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:23 am Post subject: |
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Great to hear, JP!
I gotta second Curry for stock MP's. I settled on the 3M. and it's a rock solid piece for me. |
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Jon Arnold
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 2025
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Another option is the ACB 3C. I have one in my collection and it plays with a great sound and solid intonation. I also like the CNC made Bach 3C with a 26 throat. I bought one from Osmun and had it opened up. |
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Denny Schreffler
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 390
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | | Halflip wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | | I have both Curry B and BC cup mouthpieces. I don't like the B rim. I love the BC mouthpiece. |
I am a bit confused by what you say here. Unless your B and BC mouthpieces are different numerical sizes, the rims should be identical. That's the big Curry selling point -- all mouthpieces of a given numerical size have the same rim regardless of cup depth. |
The BC has a C rim with a B cup. |
This, I believe, is right. Curry's BC one-piece mouthpieces came out of what was not uncommon in the legit world several years ago — often with a 1½ ID — to screw a Bach C rim onto a Bach B cup, which probably had an enlarged throat and modified backbore.
Curry made it more affordable as a one-piece, also producing the same idea in different IDs.
Keep in mind that his BC pieces ship with a common orchestral setup (in addition to a C rim on a B cup) of a #24 throat and a Schmidt backbore.
—Denny |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1925
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Denny Schreffler wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | | Halflip wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | | I have both Curry B and BC cup mouthpieces. I don't like the B rim. I love the BC mouthpiece. |
I am a bit confused by what you say here. Unless your B and BC mouthpieces are different numerical sizes, the rims should be identical. That's the big Curry selling point -- all mouthpieces of a given numerical size have the same rim regardless of cup depth. |
The BC has a C rim with a B cup. |
This, I believe, is right. Curry's BC one-piece mouthpieces came out of what was not uncommon in the legit world several years ago — often with a 1½ ID — to screw a Bach C rim onto a Bach B cup, which probably had an enlarged throat and modified backbore.
Curry made it more affordable as a one-piece, also producing the same idea in different IDs. |
Yes, but all of Curry's rims in a given diameter are the same. A 3BC and a 3B both have a (Mount Vernon) 3C rim. To quote Curry's website:
"Engineered like no other mouthpiece, the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter. This feature gives you the freedom to select the right cup for the job without having to get used to a different rim."
The B and BC cups are simply two different cup shapes and/or depths within the Curry 3 diameter, the BC being the Bach funnel-shaped design, while the B is Curry's own cup-shaped B depth. It's true that Curry describes the BC as "a 1-piece version of the C rim combined with the Bach-style B cup", but that doesn't mean that the B in the same diameter doesn't also have the same rim.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Jon Arnold
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Joined: 07 Jan 2002
Posts: 2025
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| I like playing on the same rim. I have a set of Stomvi 3 series mouthpieces and the rims are the same. Makes switching that much easier. Some 3c's are based on a Mt. Vernon 3c and are bigger than the Elkhart 3c. Something to watch for and consider when making a decision. |
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Yamahaguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3992
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Jon Arnold wrote: | | I like playing on the same rim. I have a set of Stomvi 3 series mouthpieces and the rims are the same. Makes switching that much easier. Some 3c's are based on a Mt. Vernon 3c and are bigger than the Elkhart 3c. Something to watch for and consider when making a decision. |
+1...same goes for Greg Black mouthpieces, every rim is identical.
I only change the cup/backbore when I need a different sound. |
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Denny Schreffler
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 390
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: | | Denny Schreffler wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | | Halflip wrote: | | Richard III wrote: | | I have both Curry B and BC cup mouthpieces. I don't like the B rim. I love the BC mouthpiece. |
I am a bit confused by what you say here. Unless your B and BC mouthpieces are different numerical sizes, the rims should be identical. That's the big Curry selling point -- all mouthpieces of a given numerical size have the same rim regardless of cup depth. |
The BC has a C rim with a B cup. |
This, I believe, is right. Curry's BC one-piece mouthpieces came out of what was not uncommon in the legit world several years ago — often with a 1½ ID — to screw a Bach C rim onto a Bach B cup, which probably had an enlarged throat and modified backbore.
Curry made it more affordable as a one-piece, also producing the same idea in different IDs. |
Yes, but all of Curry's rims in a given diameter are the same. A 3BC and a 3B both have a (Mount Vernon) 3C rim. To quote Curry's website:
"Engineered like no other mouthpiece, the Curry Standard Line incorporates the same rim and bitepoint on the shallowest to the deepest cup within each diameter. This feature gives you the freedom to select the right cup for the job without having to get used to a different rim."
The B and BC cups are simply two different cup shapes and/or depths within the Curry 3 diameter, the BC being the Bach funnel-shaped design, while the B is Curry's own cup-shaped B depth. It's true that Curry describes the BC as "a 1-piece version of the C rim combined with the Bach-style B cup", but that doesn't mean that the B in the same diameter doesn't also have the same rim. |
Quote from above ► The B and BC cups are simply two different cup shapes and/or depths within the Curry 3 diameter, the BC being the Bach funnel-shaped design, while the B is Curry's own cup-shaped B depth. It's true that Curry describes the BC as "a 1-piece version of the C rim combined with the Bach-style B cup", but that doesn't mean that the B in the same diameter doesn't also have the same rim.
Well, yes it does ...
Irrespective of what Curry is currently doing throughout his line of trumpet mouthpieces, the BC (B rim on a C cup) pieces are based on the unique shape/contour of a Bach B rim (of several years ago) as compared to a Bach C rim (of several years ago). This is from the Curry Precision site, today →”The Bach B cup is more funnel shaped, and has a different rim.”
https://www.currympc.com/Trumpet-Standard-Series-.html
—Denny |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1925
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Denny Schreffler wrote: | | This is from the Curry Precision site, today →”The Bach B cup is more funnel shaped, and has a different rim.” |
Yes, he's talking about the Bach "B" cup mouthpiece, not the Curry "B" cup mouthpiece. Right before that, the site says, "The Curry B cup is more like a deeper C cup" (unlike the Bach "B"). The Curry "B" cup uses the same rim as the Curry "BC" for a given diameter.
Tell you what -- I'll email Mark and see what he says.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Denny Schreffler
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 390
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: | | Denny Schreffler wrote: | | This is from the Curry Precision site, today →”The Bach B cup is more funnel shaped, and has a different rim.” |
Yes, he's talking about the Bach "B" cup mouthpiece, not the Curry "B" cup mouthpiece. Right before that, the site says, "The Curry B cup is more like a deeper C cup" (unlike the Bach "B"). The Curry "B" cup uses the same rim as the Curry "BC" for a given diameter.
Tell you what -- I'll email Mark and see what he says. |
Check PM
—Denny |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1925
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I sent the following question to Mark Curry:
Assuming we are talking about the same size number, do your B and BC cups have the same rim? And, for the 3 B. and 3 BC., what rim do you use (I thought it would be a Mount Vernon 3C rim for both)? What about the old 3 B and 3 BC (no dot)?
I received the following reply (bolding is mine):
Using the Mount Vernon C cup RIMS as models for the Curry Standard line was an easy decision at that time (1998) because the Bach C cups are arguably the best-selling mouthpieces of all time.
All Standard Curry models use the C rim from the corresponding Bach Mt. Vernon model (except the 8.5 size, my own creation). The resulting Curry cups from B to XS depths are all my designs.
With the exception of the BC (Chicago) Models.
Curry BC cups use the C rims and an adaptation of the Bach 5B underpart that Roger Zacks had made years before.
The Curry B cup is my design and is shaped more like a deeper C cup.
The old 3C (no dot) rim Curry mouthpieces were discontinued in 2004
and replaced with a more accurate version of the 3C rim (my 3C.)
The old MV 3C was measurably and visually wider than the 1 1/2C and
caused major problems for players trying to downsize. The magic of
CAD/CAM fixed that and in March, 2004 the Curry 3.(with a dot) rims
were integrated into the line.
Mark offered a more complex answer than I was expecting, so I asked this follow-up question for clarity:
Just to put a fine point on it, what you are saying is that the Curry
B and BC rims are both the same Mount Vernon C cup rim, correct? (I
understand about the special cup on the BC, but this "debate" is only
about the rims.)
His reply:
oh yes-
the B and BC models use the 3. rim. (I assume he means the 3 B and 3 BC models here.)
I hope this will be helpful to everyone (because I rarely work this hard for free  ).
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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