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Most Nimble Horn


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Shaft
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 985

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything in Allen Vizzuti’s hands

In all seriousness though some combinations work great with some players.

Sometimes I’ll hear a lick like Wynton Marsalis and his octave jumps near the intro off of a track in Sound of Jazz, Vol. 19: Angel Eyes or his intro to Angel Eyes and soloing in Bitter Dose and just stop in awe. Very nimble on that gear.

Just picked up a CG Benge #16975 and don’t think I will ever outplay
this one the 3X+ or the Wild Thing. They are all nimble enough for me.

I am curious about a setup like the Schilke S42 w/o a tuning slide brace and
how slippery things could get but haven’t tried it yet. “Many paths to the Top” and other tracks of Faddis being nimble up high and also in the staff make his gear choices intriguing to try. Noone makes me think of Dizzy more when I hear them than Faddis. Emulating those licks and that style is plenty nimble.

Then there is the Harrelson Muse and its myriad combination choices.

Just watched a preview promo vid of that yesterday.
Holy cow I have no idea what to expect there!
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huntman10
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Joined: 30 Aug 2017
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Location: Texas South Plains

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My ML 37 Strad cornet from late 60's that has been overbuffed sometime in the past before I got it. Slots great, opens up fast and responds faster than I can. Just don't expect it to sit down and fit in at a British Brass Band session!

Looked pretty ragged when I got it about 15 years ago, but several years back I had John Cyfers give it a silver plate job. Made it gorgeous and even more responsive.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.
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JetJaguar
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Location: Vancouver, BC

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2022 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a tough nut to crack, especially with words alone.
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kramergfy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue I have with this question is that horns described as "agile/nimble" tend to be the opposite of horns that have crisp articulation. I might just be overthinking "crisp" in this context, but to me that implies solidity, like a Bach.
I feel like looser horns tend to be more agile too. More rigid slotting tends to be more of a chore to move easily through the horn.

My vote for a good compromise would be for a Benge 3MLP. Burbank would be ideal but an early LA would probably be fine.

I imagine a Schilke S series would also do very well. I haven't played one for an extended amount of time, but purely based on its design I would assume it is similar to a Benge MLP.

* Regarding the lineage of trumpets and different brands; lets not forget that Conn had many unique designs before Bach even began making trumpets. I would say that what most of us know as a Bach (37/25 ML) is more closely related to early Conn trumpets than the light, nimble Besson trumpets.
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dmh737
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think MP has a great deal to do with it. I play a ‘77 LA Benge 3MLP. I would have never considered this a nimble horn. Very versatile and a great sound but not nimble.
Then I purchased a Harrelson Spectratone Yellow mouthpiece and it completely changed it. It still has the same versatility and gorgeous sound but now it’s so much better in every aspect, especially responsiveness.
This the reason for mouthpiece safaris.
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Rod Haney
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Joined: 22 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of all my horns and all those I’ve played the Courtois Grand Siegel ?sp is the best at everything I’ve played. Least effort from my lowest note to my highest. Especially from low to high c. Good full tone up to hi g (last note I can play after a session) very fast 2octave jumps with less effort. Rare horn, the leadpipe enters the 3rd valve at center and valves can be interchanged. For me it takes the different feel of valve changes and intonation out of the effort. The original of this config was the Conn Vocabel and anyone who has played a good one knows what a powerful and easy to play horn it was - olds superstar was another but the use of lesser quality components didn’t make it to Conn quality. Courtois is highest quality and it shows thru, even with a bent bell it is superior to a few $6000 plus horns I have. I’ll be fitting it with a rimless bell soon and I’m positive this will make it even more agile. I have seen very few in a lot of time but if you see or hear of on take the time to play it. This one will belong to another only after I pass even if others are long gone.
Rod
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JHirakawa
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Joined: 11 Mar 2022
Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
If you can ever get your hands on a great Chicago Benge, you will know exactly what a responsive and agile horn is.
The sound they can generate has a ring to it that basically few other horns have. They also fit in any genre you can think of.
I have two friends that have restored, gold plated Chicagos. One is from 1939, the other from around 1947.
They are just magnificent horns made by a man who was a great player and completely understood what a horn should do. And he was not an engineer, either.

R. Tomasek
I'm not a good trumpet player by any means, but I do enjoy playing different horns (as you can see by my list). They all are in good shape and I got most of them up dirt cheap as in $100 to $300. I got a 1948, M bore, Chicago Benge earlier this year at an Estate Sales (Barrington IL). Amazing condition for only $1,000. I only had a tuning slide tube resoldered and a couple of small dings removed. OMG! So much fun to play. Responsive, agile, easy in the upper range, and that sound. Kanstul F Besson Classics are better for classical music especially if you have to blend with others. They play similar to very good Bach Strads. But you are so right about playing a good Chicago Benge.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/1947_Chicago_Benge_Trumpet.jpg
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Kanstul FB Classic b-flat&C
'42 Buescher 205
'45 Martin Committee
'48 Chi Benge
'47 Conn 22b
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'47 Holton 48
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
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Benge flugel
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spitvalve
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most nimble horn I ever played was one I don't own anymore--a 1983 Claude Gordon Selmer. I gave it to my son when he was in middle school because a fat tuba player had stepped on his cornet and I had no other horns available to give him--I had switched to a Bach LR180 a few years earlier after deciding I needed a horn that was more suitable for all-around playing, though most of the pressure to change had come from my grad school teachers. The Selmer has better flexibility and slots very well in the extreme high register (think A above high C with no alternate fingering) and sometimes I really miss it. My now-adult son is home for Christmas and he brought the CG Selmer with him. I hope he lets me play it!
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces
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kurth83
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Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimble can mean different things.

- The B6 is my horn of choice for Mendez-style music. It's fantastic industry leading valves, smaller bore, and very high responsiveness (especially at lower volumes which is the real test of a horn's responsiveness IMHO) makes it the clear winner there.
- Somewhere in the middle is my Claude Gordon Selmer, I once thought this was the finest horn ever made, but it is best characterized as a moderately open horn that is very efficient and very responsive. It isn't as big as my more open symphony horns, but is significantly more open than a B6. I use it for lead work when I need a lot of acoustic power, and the B6 when I need less. For the category that it's in, it's a contender for the best overall Bb IMHO.
- At the opposite end of the spectrum are my Shires symphony horns (AF and 4f), they are the most efficient horns I own, and very responsive, but like a lot of air, so I'm not gonna do light solo-style work on them as I prefer a smaller horn there that takes less air. Shires valves are also not industry leading to say the least.

All of the above horns have slightly more forgiving slotting, which I prefer as a general rule.
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tyler.slamkowski
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Joined: 03 Jun 2017
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Location: Muskegon, MI

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurth83 wrote:
Nimble can mean different things.

- The B6 is my horn of choice for Mendez-style music. It's fantastic industry leading valves, smaller bore, and very high responsiveness (especially at lower volumes which is the real test of a horn's responsiveness IMHO) makes it the clear winner there.
- Somewhere in the middle is my Claude Gordon Selmer, I once thought this was the finest horn ever made, but it is best characterized as a moderately open horn that is very efficient and very responsive. It isn't as big as my more open symphony horns, but is significantly more open than a B6. I use it for lead work when I need a lot of acoustic power, and the B6 when I need less. For the category that it's in, it's a contender for the best overall Bb IMHO.
- At the opposite end of the spectrum are my Shires symphony horns (AF and 4f), they are the most efficient horns I own, and very responsive, but like a lot of air, so I'm not gonna do light solo-style work on them as I prefer a smaller horn there that takes less air. Shires valves are also not industry leading to say the least.

All of the above horns have slightly more forgiving slotting, which I prefer as a general rule.


This is an aside, but: I play Shires, and it's just nice to hear someone notice the valve issues. They sound so good, love playing them, but I haven't been pleased with the valves on most Shires horns, even new ones.
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