King 602 or Olds Ambassador cornet

[Brassnose]

Lately, cornets have become quite interesting to me. Been over 40 years since I last played one and as this currently is only an interest with no real gig behind, I figured a decent starter cornet might do before going crazy at some later stage. Xmas is coming up, so possibly the funds might allow for a purchase.

Long story short, there are within reach an almost pristine King 602, slides and valves look almost new, and two not so new but technically sound Olds Ambassadors, likely from a later phase of the company, as indicated by the shape of the bracing.

Which one would you prefer and why? Price is in the same ballpark.

And yes, I tried to find info on TH but was not terribly successful as far as direct comparisons go.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Richard III]

What kind of music are you going to use a cornet for?
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Andy Cooper]

King and Olds both had great valves but if you are looking at British Band style playing you would be better off with Yamaha Japanese (not Chinese) student shephard's crook cornet.

If the Olds cornets have regular Z type bell bracing they are probably made in Holland - not the USA. That does not make them "bad" - just not like the original .(USA production stopped in 1979 ending with serial numbers around A40550).

I found the King 602 to be a solid "American" style cornet that can be structured or broad sounding depending on the mouthpiece insertion depth.

[Brassnose]

Thanks everyone. As for the application: as stated above, the initial use will be fooling around at home with no gig to back up the use of a cornet. Most of my playing (solid amateur who normally gets invited back) is (or at least was before the pandemic) in the big band/commercial/jazz fields.

Currently my main gig is a community orchestra and the occasional church stuff, either solo, with an organ, or with a choir. No british brass band in sight anywhere near here.
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Crazy Finn]

I've played both. They're both fine, good, vintage student cornets. I think, generally, the Olds is tends to be more open, but that's about all I can say.

I'd just go with the one that plays better, or without any ability to play before buying, the one that looks to be in better shape.

This is assuming that the Olds is a Fullerton model and not a post-bankruptcy stencil Olds, in which case, I'd go with the King. But, that's mostly because it's hard to know where the stencil Olds were made. I see a comment mentions Holland, which is possible - though I haven't seen one of these. I have seen Olds that were Blessing made stencils - though these have been trumpets, I think. Blessings are fine, but I might lean a bit toward the King. It's hard to go wrong with the 600/Tempo King line with the brasses - they're all pretty solid and decent horns.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[chef8489]

If you can find a King 604, it is vatter than the 602. It has the shepherds crook vs the American style.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger

[Brassnose]

OK, thanks. The King clearly is a mid-60s horn, the age (and hence origin) of the Olds is a bit murky, as the seller doesn’t seem to know much about it in the first place. An inquiry for the serial is out. I’m definitely looking for a real Olds (LA or Fullerton, I guess). Moreover, a Holton Collegiate just popped up, slightly lower price than the other horns and apparently in very good shape. Options, options, …
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2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[chef8489]

[Crazy Finn]

[Brassnose]

Just realized I never finished the thread. I finally decided to go with an essentially brand new looking 1966 Holton Collegiate cornet. Valves are awesome, as good as my Bach’s, the brass is bright yellow without any spots, and everything is straight, tight, and neat. Few scratches here and there, but that’s it.

Used it in my annual Christmas gig, 6000 people in the stadium singing Christmas carols and the orchestra accompanying. This year was very nice, actually, with almost no rain and the temperature was a few degrees (Celsius) in the positive.

As the lighting at this event is always a challenge, the shorter length vs. a trumpet is a very nice feature as it allows me to get a little closer to the music stand, if needed. Looks like I have a great outdoors horn for next to nothing, pricewise 👍
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[spitvalve]

I recently picked up one of each and did a side by side comparison. The Olds was better in every way-- better tone, more free-blowing, and better intonation. Sold the King and gave the Olds to my son.
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[Brassnose]

Interesting. I have very limited experience with Olds and none with King really, they’re reasonably rare birds over here. Or, better, they go for prices that are much higher than what a US based person would pay.

I’ve recently seen an Ambassador cornet for 650 EUR (!) and am just not ready to pay that. For that money I could buy an Olds Special or maybe an Olds Super or one of those pretty Holton Super Collegiates in the US and have it shipped to me (nooooo, I’m NOT pondering that idea 😜).

The Holton was a real bargain, just a smidge over 100 and in great condition, so that’s fine.

The Olds and the King that triggered my original question starting the thread were less expensive than the 650 but still significantly more than what I paid for the Holton.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier