Picc: Selmer vs. Getzen vs. Carol vs. Pfretzschner

Brassnose

Around me, very loosely defined, there are three used piccolo trumpets for sale, roughly the same price range, roughly the same shape, all playable. There is a fourth one coming from a reputed instrument maker, also roughly the same price, but a much older horn.

I have been looking at piccoli for a while but have not had any use for one, so couldn’t really justify the expense. Now, I recently joined a brass quintet on first trumpet and my orchestra also started playing pieces that could be played with a picc, if so inclined. At least the picc could be used to add color in a few places.

So I thought that maybe one of those four could be interesting to start a more serious attempt at the picc. I won’t be the new Maurice but I would actually be able to afford one of them to try it out. Of course there are also those used Schilkes and Scherzers etc. out there but that’s out of reach financially at the moment.

So, I am specifically looking for personal opinions, especially from people who have played the following models and can compare. Target is brass quintet and a ca. 40 piece community orchestra heavy on brass and woodwinds, not so much strings, playing classical, pops, film music, all sorts of folk music, Piazzolla, etc.

Horns in question:

Getzen Eterna 940 short model
Selmer classical short model
Carol Brass 7775 YLS long model
Pfretzschner rotary

The Pfretzschner is ca. 60 years old, but comes from an instrument maker who cleaned and fixed it. Scherzer „analogue“ but seems to have a wider bell.

Whaddya all think?
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

Dayton · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:41 am Post subject:

Of those horns, the only one I have experience with is the Getzen. That is a fine horn. Try all of them if you can. Good luck!

spitvalve · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:36 am Post subject:

I owned a Getzen pic and loved it. Two of my teachers had Selmer pics back in the day. Beautiful tone but to me they were stuffy and had serious intonation issues, but I didn't play them enough to seriously evaluate them. One of them traded his Selmer in on a Schilke because of those issues.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

HaveTrumpetWillTravel · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:59 am Post subject:

I'd first go with any long piccolo if you can afford one (schilke, stomvi, yamaha, jupiter). Keep an eye out and you can get probably find one at a reasonable price.

cheiden · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:20 am Post subject:

I voted Getzen because I've played a couple that were okay. In general I favor the long bell or the Yamaha 3+1 models.

You might also consider trying the Dillon or Austin Custom Brass horns. These are inexpensive new and tend to get decent reviews.

My Kanstul I bought used for relatively little $.
_________________
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:30 am Post subject:

No Schilke?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet

Brassnose · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:55 am Post subject:

Thanks everyone. Dillon and ACB are certainly interesting but, living in Germany, I don’t want to go through the hassle of customs and all that jazz. The Thomann piccs, which would be easily accessible here, get very mixed reviews, so I’d rather not do that.

Kanstul is super rare over here but I have not thought of the Jupiter piccs. I’ll check for those. Not common either, but who knows.

Used Stomvis are about three times the price of the horns in my initial list, used Schilkes about five times that. If I’m going to spend two to three grand on a used horn, I’d rather save up a little more and get a Martin Schmidt rotary picc.

But that was not the point of the question - rather, either of these more expensive horns would be an option if it turns out I actually use the picc to some decent extent in some more or less distant future.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

kehaulani · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:02 am Post subject:

Well, living in Germany, you know that Europe has a number of fine, local-made trumpets. I got a stunningly reconditioned French Horn by a local craftsman. Much greater exposure to them in Europe as opposed to large corporation, name brands.

Maybe you can get info through local sources, or like trumpetenforum.
https://trompetenforum.de/TF/
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet

Brassnose · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 9:59 am Post subject:

I probably know most of the fine European craftsmen, at least from their websites

and also read and write on the TF.

The point of my poll, however, is not to identify a high end workshop but to get an opinion as to which of those used piccs that would be available to me at the moment would be a good starter picc. I am trying to do step 1 (familiarize myself with picc playing) before step 2 (go crazy and buy a really expensive custom picc)

_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

spitvalve · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:21 pm Post subject:

Getzen is a very good starter pic. It's relatively free-blowing, with a bigger bore (.420") than the Selmer (which I think is .414 or smaller), and if you can get one that has the Blackburn leadpipes it helps with the intonation.

I was up and running on the Getzen within a few days after I bought it. If you can play up to a high F on the Bb trumpet you're ready for the piccolo.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

cheiden · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:59 pm Post subject:

RETrumpet · Veteran Member Joined: 26 Jan 2021 Posts: 210

You didn't mention an actual budget, but the Brasspire Unicorn is a very good budget piccolo.
_________________
Bb: FrankenBach, '72 Committee, Conn 22B, King 2070SGX
C: Bach 229-MK slide/pipe, Bach 226 with YTR-9445(2) pipe
D/Eb: Bach 239 with YTR-9636 pipe
Picc: Stomvi Master, Couesnon Monopole
Cornet: Schilke A2C, '23 Buescher
Flugel: Scodwell Prototype

spitvalve · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:15 pm Post subject:

Brassnose · Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:10 pm Post subject:

OK, lots of additional comments. A second Getzen just popped up and given all the comments, this may be the way to go. Now, I’ll also try to answer the comments and questions

I can play up to high G if warmed up properly, but I am a rather nervous person, so there is a lot of psychological aspects that come into play. I need to make sure I am warmed up properly and relaxed. Getting better at the latter.

Budget: I didn’t specify that on purpose. It’s a slightly variable affair because the money is generated from stuff I sell, mostly on ebay, some trumpet stuff, some non-trumpet stuff.

Blackburn: I know about those pipes, but we also have someone specializing in leadpipes over here and I guess that would be easier, especially because his leadpipes are equally highly regarded. Been in touch with them about a flugel leadpipe already, very professional and competent: https://www.musikbeck.de/produkt-kategorie/cat_neu_beck_mundrohre/

Brasspire: funny this comes up, just looked at them yesterday. Rare birds over here.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

zaferis · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:07 am Post subject:

Blackburn,
Scherzer,
Schilke,
Bach,
Yamaha
Selmer Paris (w/ Blackburn leadpipes?
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Adjunct Professor
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Andy Del · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2022 1:58 pm Post subject:

An old German rotary which may or may not be a good horn is going to be a roll of the dice. You need to play it back to back with another piccolo.

In order of heebie jeebies...

Carol Brass. Ah, no. Poor intonation, squirrelly sound, not a real contender.
Getzen. They can be modified to play much better with aftermarket leadpipes, and then you have a good chance.
Selmer. A reasonable one will have a terrific sound. You can address intonation with either leadpipes or judicious mouthpiece selection. Reinhold Friedrich STILL plays his first piccolo ,a Selmer he purchased as a young man (he does own others) and can do anything you would like on it. It sounds amazing (Yes, I have heard him play it up close and live)

There's your choices. Or just get a Scherzer, Thein, Schagerl and be done with it!

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

Brassnose · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:25 am Post subject:

OK, here we go. Took me a while to sort things out then Christmas came, yada yada yada, but looks like it’ll be a nice Getzen 940. Still waiting for the deal to close (the person is away on holidays right now) but should work out.

Before going Schilke, Schagerl, or another super expensive place I’d talk to those people: https://www.martin-schmidt-potsdam.de/ Their horns are at least on par with Schagerl (have not played Thein) and their prices are a lot more realistic. But this is for a few years down the road.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

DKassteen · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 7:20 am Post subject:

I played on the Getzen Eterna short model for years. I actually sold my long bell Yamaha and bought the Getzen while pocketing an extra thousand from the sale. The Getzen has terrific valves and plays very easily. It takes a trumpet mouthpiece, not cornet. I upgraded the leadpipe to a Blackburn and that gave the sound more stability and depth. Excellent piccolo trumpet. I eventually bought a short model Blackburn piccolo trumpet bell only, with the idea of putting it on the Getzen, but that project never happened. The bell is a perfect match for the Eterna and would significantly improve the overall sound. I still have the bell if you should ever need it.

Brassnose · Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:02 am Post subject:

Thx for the offer but I guess I’ll practice first

The horn looks like it’s in very good shape and I’ll play/practice as is first. Then, depending on progress and skill and demand I’ll ponder a leadpipe, but before that I’ll dig into my mouthpiece drawer to find a nice match. For the time being I have been thinking about an AR ME top with an L or L classical backbore, possibly a Warburton 5SV or 5M top. Let’s wait until I have the horn in front of me.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier