Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:47 pm Post subject:
I've had some success with shifting my focus from precision to expression. If you get comfortable playing like you're telling a story then you're free to adjust how you tell that story. If you can't hit that high note, play another one that works. Can't play that fast lick, boldly play a lick you can play.
And has been said, it's rarely all about the trumpet player. You're just one contributor. Add what you can and leave out what you can't. Most listeners won't know or care. Be comfortable playing a small roll. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
And sometimes it just can’t be helped and you gotta work with what you have. Got a performance coming up in a few hours and I’m totally not nervous…except my body disagrees. Woke up very anxious and it’s only slowly subsiding. It’s mostly relaxed breathing, distractions, and no cafeïne for me until the concert starts. Still, mind over matter only goes so far sometimes. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1294 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:31 am Post subject:
I do not know if this would work for everyone. Maybe it depends on where you are spiritually. Or maybe it is just a placebo like Dumbo's feather. But since keeping a Carnelian crystal in my pocket while performing, my performance anxiety has disappeared and has been replaced with a real, visceral energy that I have never felt before.
Don't knock it until you try it. I figure if ancient warriors bothered to wear it into battle, there must be something to it.
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:05 am Post subject:
I have been back play for 7 years now. I used to really get worked up prior to a performance. And at times that stress would get the best of me. Over time I have learned to control it for the most part. I have found that it comes down to this:
Instead of practicing until I don't make mistakes, practice until i cant make a mistake (not always possible)
Recognizing that I am invariably going to make mistakes (because I am not Wynton or Maurice, etc.) and the sun will still come up tomorrow if I do
Remembering why I am there - because I love music and want to share it with others
Recognizing that regardless of what I do I am going to feel the stress. Acknowledge that it is the case and focus on staying out of my own way.
I play in a local community band that does not rehearse. We show up and play the concert. The music is different from week to week. You quickly learn to focus on the music and sight read. Playing performances in that manner has helped me get over being consumed by the fear of playing wrong notes. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 936 Location: Greenville, South Carolina
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:52 am Post subject:
I was lurking on this topic to respond after many interesting responses. Here’s my take on it:
Everyone experiences anxiety. I use the word anxiety instead of fear. We do not want fear! That’s why Herbert L. Clarke and Claude Gordon repeatedly said, “You must drive all fear out of your system!” The question though is how to do that.
I personally have seen students of all ages in recitals and auditions react by sweating, passing out, vomiting, crying, anger, running off stage, breaking their instrument, and even peeing on themselves. And, everyone of those people I have seen overcome those things and go on to play great and some became professionals.
Often bad experiences stick in our memory more than the good experiences. I will never forget my two worst experiences and the worst was when going through an embouchure with Claude Gordon and just a couple weeks later letting the cute band director talk me into playing a stupid herald trumpet for the prelude to our National Anthem. I kept saying that I wasn’t ready yet and she wouldn’t take no for an answer. Drum roll and I’m at the 50 yard line in a stadium with 20,000 people and a cheerleader I had a crush on for a couple years and so wanted to impress about 20 feet from the end of my bell. I missed all three high Cs and on the last one was so angry at myself I blew the crap out of it and an even louder uglier Bb came out and lots of people laughed. I never went to high school dances but some of my friends said they replayed my performance and all laughed at the dance. Some people tried to talk with me kindly at school and that convinced even more how terrible I played.
That experience stuck with me for probably a year or more but I played so much better the next year and redeemed myself personally with much better performances. My point that others made too is to not put yourself in a situation where you aren’t sure you can play well. I believe this is a big problem with lots of college teaching. You don’t gain skills by playing a harder solo. You can hear people that have done this for example when they play the first movement of the Haydn and you hear the nerves and tension as they are worrying about the High Eb and screw-up everything prior to that. It we all developed more skills then the music shouldn’t be a technical challenge and become more exciting and fun. That comfort and confidence comes across through your horn because of how our body and mind work together.
I’m currently reading several books on body language and non verbal communication and some of that overlaps to music performance because we are communicating and entertaining. Our natural response to fear is built-into us and we can’t stop it but we can redirect it and overcome it. Our mouth drying up is something we can’t will away but we can take a big breath and focus on posture and things that will allow an already trained player to play close to the way they have practiced.
I personally get very frustrated and annoyed to hear people say to take drugs or other things to over come this. And, too much inward psychological focus can make it worse. We need to get beyond ourselves. There’s a recent YouTube I posted with Harry Kim talking about jazz improv and he makes these points very well. I know my shyness and reluctance to attempt improv until after college was from being too worried about what others think.
One of the mundane things about Claude Gordon’s way of doing things is using models (i.e. various articulations) and doing his “How You Practice” reverse practice technique with the purpose of 4x perfectly in a row at each step. There’s a diagram of this on my site and it’s on some YouTube videos. It’s tedious but works. Susan Slaughter talks about it too in her presentation I posted from 2010. Harry Kim told me he still uses that and did it right before his Grammy Performance with James Brown and Usher. You can watch that on YouTube too and hear some awesome tight clean playing. Harry said the main lick just wasn’t happening for him in the rehearsal right before the live broadcast. Harry worked on that lick with “How You Practice” and you can hear the results from live TV.
Harry and I have talked about stage freight and various people he has played with and his own feelings about the matter. He said he feels excitement and a rush when walking onto a stage with a thunderous crowd like 500,000+ with Johnny Halliday at the Eiffel Tower and most of France watching on TV. Yet he said playing in a club with less than 100 people up close to him has gotten him more self-conscious when he hasn’t done it as much as the arena sized audiences. I believe our comfort is tied to familiarity and a feeling of control of the situation.
For curiosity, look for video of Steve Jobs doing his first TV interview and then his later keynote presentations. What you will see is fear and nervousness and asking for a bathroom and you can see it all over his face too. However, the reason for his masterful presentations later was from lots of planning and practice of every minute detail. Some of the interesting ones are when a computer fails to respond and how he smoothly transitions to a backup plan without many noticing it. That is because he rehearsed his lines and even lighting details for hours a day for a week or more all to do a 90 minute talk. When we play we are performing and giving ourselves to the audience and the prep is a much bigger deal than anything else.
Claude used to say, “The difference between a good player and a virtuoso Is that the good player practices until he doesn’t make a mistake but the virtuoso practices until they CAN’T make a mistake.” When you have done all of the crazy models from Saint-Jacome p. 157 or Claude’s books then you have played so many times accurately that you better not miss.
I teach students of all ages and levels and the biggest challenge for adults and comeback players is patience. You can’t be away from the trumpet for 15 years and expect to be great right away. As we get older we think our intellect and accomplishments should more efficiently translate to becoming a great player in less time. Nothing takes the place of consistent smart systematic practice. Adults tend to get too analytical and we all need to approach practice with a discovery mindset like a child that fearlessly goes for it and adjusts and tries again.
“Big Breath Chest Up” was another Claude Gordon motto but it is very very practical because when your imbic system puts you into fight or flight mode it is even more vital to breathe so you have a chance to play at all.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9030 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:09 am Post subject:
Again, a simplistic answer (sorry) from me, but I developed what I call a "Don't give a ****" attitude. Of course I cared, but you just can't make that your driving force. You have to be willing to have an attitude about not being concerned with perfection, rather letting it all hang out. I learned that from French horn legend Herman Bauman. It worked for me.
And TAKE YOUR EGO out of the performance! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: Thanks Again
I appreciate every one of your replies; Jeff Purtle - I’m especially honored to read your post because I took Zoom lessons from you for about three months in 2021 and greatly benefited and progressed under your instruction.
I went to the rehearsal this morning, trying to focus on many of the suggestions I’ve read from you, but my anxiety hindered my play so I’m not playing Christmas morning. I find this extremely discouraging because I practice Choral Du Veilleur well until I play it in front of people.
I suggested to the choir director that perhaps we should choose easier pieces for me to play for now, until I grow in my comfort of playing before an audience. He seemed to agree. (He still wants us to play Choral in January!) Do you think this is a good way to get over my stage fright?
It was two years ago this month that I started playing again, after a 45 year absence. I love the trumpet! This is a mental battle I’ve got to fight. When I started preaching - public speaking, I had intense anxiety but I’m used to it now. Psalm 150:3
Thanks for your time.
Michael _________________ Michael C. Coon
Last edited by Michael Coon on Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
I haven't played the trumpet for about 12 years. Took my Conn 60B into a local repair shop as the 2nd valve was sticking a bit. In that 12 year hiatus I got fungal pneumonia and lost considerable lung function do to scaring. My wife suggested I start playing again to help increase the air capacity in my lungs.
I would be horrified to have anyone hear me play today. Time to get back into my high school Grand Method book.
I will press on and I'm sure my nerves will subside with practice. No public performances for me yet. It's hard for a 66 year old to remember how well I played in high school and to hear myself now sounding like I did when I first started playing in grade school.
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 5:02 am Post subject:
Jerry W. Squires wrote:
It's hard for a 66 year old to remember how well I played in high school and to hear myself now sounding like I did when I first started playing in grade school.
I know what you are saying, Jerry. Playing during the 50's and 60's with my 5 piece band were the glory years for me. I wish I could play as well today. I am back at it after a 50 year break and probably play about as well as i can hope for. Yep, I'd love to be able to play like I did in my teens and twenties, but I don't waste too much time on it, and I suggest the same to you. After 6 months back I started playing with the local Horizons Band and today, at 86, I am playing with one of the top community bands in this part of Canada. Lots of concerts ( before Covid ) and lots of applause. I couldn't be happier.
Suggestion, Jerry: hook up with a local band if you can. For me it was a fast way to get back in the saddle. And don't worry about how you sound. It's probably a lot better than you think.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 93 Location: Webster, NY, USA
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:47 am Post subject:
Being a comeback player myself, I can tell you what's worked for me.
First, what helps foremost is having a mastery of the music. If I know the music inside and out and can play it well, I've eliminated a cause of insecurity about my playing.
I had adopted an "I don't give a **** about what others think" attitude. Not only in my trumpet playing, but in life in general. And that has made things simpler and helps take the pressure off.
Being an engineer by education and profession, my mental process is identifying problems, understanding them and the issues surrounding them, and then finding solutions. I wanted to know what causes nervousness and performance anxiety, and in a nutshell, the "butterflies" and nervousness are the body's response to an abnormal situation, i.e., a situation that I normally didn't find myself in. That's it. For me, once I broke it down like that and realized that playing in front of others was something I don't do every day, performing in front of others simply became a "so what, it's a different situation - who cares!"
One other thing I came to realize is that it's not about me, it's about the music. By concentrating on the music and listening to those around me if I'm playing in an ensemble, there's just too much that's important about the music that I don't have the time to think about a crowd being present. It's like I'm not aware the crowd's even there anymore.
Combining all of these tactics helped me overcome nerves when playing. Maybe you can find some use in my experience. _________________ Kanstul 1600 Bb
XO 1624 C
Getzen Renaissance 30 C
XO 1700 Bb/A picc
"Hit it hard, and wish it well." - CG
Being a comeback player myself, I can tell you what's worked for me...
...One other thing I came to realize is that it's not about me, it's about the music. By concentrating on the music and listening to those around me if I'm playing in an ensemble, there's just too much that's important about the music that I don't have the time to think about a crowd being present. It's like I'm not aware the crowd's even there anymore...
... Maybe you can find some use in my experience.
+1 Wish there was a "Like" button!
Life is short, find the Joy in it!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 93 Location: Webster, NY, USA
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:21 pm Post subject:
Richard III wrote:
Ask this guy. I can't imagine the stress at that age.
Looks like an Eb cornet he's playing - nice. _________________ Kanstul 1600 Bb
XO 1624 C
Getzen Renaissance 30 C
XO 1700 Bb/A picc
"Hit it hard, and wish it well." - CG
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:33 pm Post subject:
Over the past 50 or so years I've always been pretty good dealing with performance anxiety so long as I'm well prepared. In my case, having an audience tends to make me much more focussed and aware- more so than when playing rehearsals or practice, although the rehearsals have always been expected to be at performance level.
Everyone is different but I'd put money on the basic "7 P's Principle" as the primary starting point at overcoming the initial issue.
What a lovely tune and a lovely performance. Listening I felt that oh I´ll return to my brassband, quitting the big bands....!
But, referring to the OP: this solemn, poetic tune highlits the fundamental aspect: let yourself become engulfed by the music, enjoy being in the middle of these heavenly sonoruos sounds, or, captured by the rhythms, the tonal palette. Your´e but a part of the music.
You are a piece of color in that palette.
May sound silly and on the face of it but nevertheless! _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
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