Orchestral Auditions!!!: How much sight reading?

[Jason Rogers]

My question is aimed at the professional orchestral or military band players. To audition, we all have to play a solo and excerpts....but then the sight reading! At an audition, what did you sight read? How much time was spent on sight reading? I am trying to persuade my advanced students to give more attention to sight reading!!!
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[Gottfried Reiche]

I've taken dozens of orchestral auditions over the years, and currently hold a chair in a top orchestra on the east coast. I have never encountered sight-reading in an orchestral audition, on either side of the curtain.

GR

[Jon Kaplan]

I haven't taken nearly as many as Gottfried Reiche, only 14 professional auditions. Even though I've seen "potential sight reading" on almost every audition list, I have also never encountered it even in final rounds for an ORCHESTRA. I have done it in the finals of a military band audition before, in the form of a sightread duet, and also in graduate school auditions. I've also served as the audition proctor for a number of the Charlotte Symphony's auditions for other instruments, and it has occasionally happened.

BUT I have two things to say about this.

1. In practice, my understanding is that professional orchestra audition "sight reading" is very unlikely to be some kind of difficult computer generated or obscure etude meant as a true "sight-reading" test, but rather an excerpt from a piece that is already in the standard orchestra repertoire but may not be on the existing audition list. It's more of a placeholder in audition lists so that if the audition panel really feels like there's a particular skill they want the finalists to demonstrate that they don't have a good excerpt for on the existing list, they can still use ask for it under the cover of "sight-reading." In practice this means that it's more likely going to benefit someone who has a lot of orchestra experience and may have played that excerpt before, not someone who's "good at sight-reading" since there is so much necessary context to perform an orchestra excerpt beyond the printed notes.

2. Even though it probably isn't actual common practice to do real "sight-reading" in a professional orchestra audition doesn't mean it's still not VERY important. In professional orchestras the need to actually sightread is usually very low, with the music usually being handed out to players at least a week ahead of time. But, sight-reading is a CORE skill of professional musicians and is used in all kinds of other contexts - at it's core, "sight-reading" really just means QUICKLY learning and reading any music put in front of them. The better at it you are, the less time you'll have to spend in the practice room decoding any music you're given and the more time you can spend learning all the other crucial aspects of performing it (context, style, etc!!!). Also, gigs outside of professional orchestra work will frequently not give out music ahead of time and sometimes is a lot more challenging technically than anything you might be given in an orchestra. There's also the need to read music to perform for students that they're working on... etc etc etc. Sight reading is READING and it is a core skill of any musician that reads notation for their work.

Curious to hear how others feel about the subject.
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2nd Trumpet, Charlotte Symphony Orchestra
2nd Trumpet, Central City Opera Orchestra

[Nonsense Eliminator]

I've only had to "sight-read" at an orchestral audition once — it was Don Quixote. This was a fairly ineffective test of sight-reading as there were about 10 people in that round so by the end of the round a lot of people had managed to get their hands on the part, and of course lots of people knew the excerpt anyway.

There will be no sight-reading at any audition I have any control over.

Related:
"The BSO audition committee members were not sure they wanted to hire someone with a degree in nuclear physics and not much orchestral experience. They asked him to sight-read something and he responded that, if he won the job, he would never be sight-reading for them. They let him take the piece, practice it for an hour, and return to play it."

https://www.hornsociety.org/ihs-people/honoraries/26-people/honorary/577-charles-kavalovski
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Richard Sandals
NBO

[Jason Rogers]

Very unusual response. Every modern audition I have witnessed or experienced includes sight reading and section playing. How old are you? From what generation are you? Of course reading most of your posts you seem to be more focused on equipment than pedagogy.
This is a legit question. Military band auditions always include sight reading in multiple styles....concert band; commercial; marches etc. Major symphony orchestras this day and time can use sight reading with section playing in the final rounds of the decision process.
Most professional players I know are deeply connected with education. You seem to be focused on trying out equipment. Do you actually teach?
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[Jason Rogers]

If your goal was to influence responses....it worked !!! ---Thanks!
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Martin Committee 1954
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Bach Stradivarius
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[Jon Kaplan]

[davidkoch]

I never sightread because I’ve played all the notes on the trumpet before. Music is just those notes in different orders.


Seriously, you asked a question and are getting upset at the responses to that question.

Scaring students into sight reading because it will be on an audition (when in reality I’ve never seen it in any of the auditions I’ve taken or been on the panel for) is bad teaching - even more so when you fear monger for something that likely won’t happen. Yes, reading is important, but at its core, it’s about command of your instrument and familiarity with patterns/rhythms/intervals/style/etc.

If you want to instill these fundamentals, work up etudes - LOTS of them. Sight reading is stupid. Learning quickly is what sets the best players apart.
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Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic.

[Jason Rogers]

Thanks Davidkoch!!!

I appreciate your answer!

Empathy is my middle name!

Not trying to influence fear! Sight reading is nothing to be afraid of!!!

That is why we practice it!!!

Sight reading involves its own skill set.
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Martin Committee 1954
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Bach Stradivarius
Schilke
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[Jason Rogers]

BTW:

Jon Kaplan

David Koch

Both awesome players!!!
_________________
Martin Committee 1954
Benge
Bach Stradivarius
Schilke
Getzen

[CodyMac90]

I’ll copy and paste my reply here…delete that other thread you have going.

Seems like you’ve already received enough feedback.

That’s going to be more of concern when it comes to military band auditions. The only times I have ever had to sight read, was in a few DC band final rounds. Even then, it’s really standard stuff.

As for orchestra, you probably won’t run across sight reading, unless it’s your first audition and you make it to the final round. Meaning, if your making finals, you’ve probably come across any rep that they will put in front of you. The BIGGER concern will be, can you transpose. They may put a different edition than you’re used to seeing, and it’ll mess with your eyes. The stronger you can be at transposition, the more quickly you can relax in your seat.

So, advice, get easy etude books(Aruban Art of Phrasing), and play two, each day, in different keys. Obviously advance to other etudes after that. This will simulate the feeling that you’re trying to create for your students.

[kehaulani]

From a military band standpoint, I believe sight reading is often included. For professional orchestras, most repertoire is announced well in advance, sight reading is not so crucial.

Military bands, on the other hand, have a turnover of much music and rehearsal time is at a premium, so the ability to quickly sight read is important.

My experience with most A.F. bands is that they can read the spots off the page. And, accordingly. I think a prospective auditionee had better be prepared to do so, as well,

p.s. this has nothing to do with studio orchestras. That's another animal.
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[Steve A]

I haven't been to the final rounds of many auditions (understatement), but I have only once been asked to sight read in an audition (for a very small regional orchestra), and it was a bizarre and extremely difficult choice that I doubt told the panel anything useful.

However, while it might not be an essential skill for auditions, it's 100% essential for all other aspects of freelancing, where, at least in my experience, it's very common to only see some portion of the music for the first time in the rehearsal immediately before the performance. (He says, while warming up for just such a gig.)

Also, in a slightly broader sense, I think that the better you sight read, generally the faster you learn music overall, which is super valuable. Practice should mostly be about building/maintaining skills, or working on especially thorny passages, rather than finding out how something sounds.

[Andy Del]

Interesting responses - especially about 'sight reading' being a placeholder in case there was no excerpt to investigate a particular skill with... time to get a better list of excerpts!

Of all the auditions I have done I DID get thrown sight reading once - a passage from Traviata in fact, but it was untitled. I just looked, decided it was Verdi and played like I thought it would go - only to be accused of 'cheating' and knowing the excerpt. (the thought 'dumbass' went through by head)

I had in fact played three seasons of Traviata - but only Banda and always left straight away, as I was illegally parked outside... (it's a 10 minute gig) even rehearsals!
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[Nonsense Eliminator]

If the real subject here is about the skill of sight reading, I guess my question is, have you ever met somebody with...

• reliable, consistent fundamentals
• absolute fluency in basic elements (e.g. scales, arpeggios, etc.)
• transposition chops
• a broad knowledge of the standard repertoire
• good ears

...who sucked at sight reading?
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Richard Sandals
NBO

[abontrumpet]

[kehaulani]

I've known great players who were lousy sight readers. Depends on the job requirement.

But the OP is not talking about all the possibilities or ramifications. He asked about the chances of sight reading requirements in an audition..
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

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[Tpt_Guy]

Some time ago, Jim Wilt (Mr Clean) wrote a post inspired by serving on a committee for what then was a recent audition. I printed it for myself, but I wish I could find a link (it would be great for students to read).

In it, he mentions sight reading:

[Gottfried Reiche]

[noamiller]

As a freelancer, I have had a ton of day-of last minute orchestra calls, last minute addition of music, and generally a huge amount of music to learn in short amount of time. Sight reading/learning music very quickly is absolute key to being able to "make it". Don't need it as an excuse/motivator as far as audition requirement. It's absolutely necessary in the industry.

Sight transposition is particularly a big one.