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Bájoc Music
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2023
Posts: 46
Location: Portland, MI
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 Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| GizB wrote: | | Don't forget Kanstul! |
Already on it, GizB!  The "newer-style" of Kanstul EVGs (labeled as Kanstul (New Style) on the EVGs page; has one tooth/wing on the OEM Kanstul valve guide and one cutout in the casing) are readily available.
I recently finished designing the "older style" of Kanstul EVGs where the OEM valve guide has two teeth/wings. I should be getting a batch of those dogbones soon. These older-style Kanstul EVGs should fit on Smith-Watkins, some Blackburns, some B.A.C., and Kanstul horns with this type of valve guide.
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In case people ask: the reason I name this one design "older" is because the design and the overall layout of the two-teeth OEM Kanstul valve guide looks similar to the design of the L.A./UMI Benge valve guides...very interesting! I was actually able to fit a set of Benge EVGs onto this type of Kanstul valve without a problem—for the sake of testing and I was curious. I speculate that this layout/design of valve guide from UMI Benge must have been utilized when Kanstul moved into the old UMI plant in Anaheim, CA...maybe? Pure speculation here, but seeing some of the similarities was pretty neat. 
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https://bajocmusic.com/
I am driven to work generously in the service of others' musical creativity. |
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Riojazz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 1015
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:48 am Post subject: |
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More feedback. I have the harmonic water key on my Shires trumpet. It fit fine. I won't claim I can hear any difference in the sound, but the horn played great in last night's rehearsal. It's not easy to do a quick A-B test.
I thought for a moment about getting one for my Kanstul 1525 flugel, but remembered I changed out the lever spit valve for a Saturn many years ago. Interestingly, the Saturn water key has a little BB-sized metal ball that is forced by a spring to fill the hole where the stock spit valve would have left a space, so it's a somewhat similar solution. Just use a plastic bag if you ever disassemble it for cleaning (like you would with an Amado key).
Jacob, a question please: I was wondering if you have developed anything further to prevent any rotational movement in the Kanstul flugel? I have the second version you made in mid May and that still works fine, but I notice I can spin the valve around and I find that a little disconcerting that it doesn't 'catch' like it would with the old brass valve guides.
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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Bájoc Music
Regular Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2023
Posts: 46
Location: Portland, MI
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| Riojazz wrote: | More feedback. I have the harmonic water key on my Shires trumpet. It fit fine. I won't claim I can hear any difference in the sound, but the horn played great in last night's rehearsal. It's not easy to do a quick A-B test.
…
Jacob, a question please: I was wondering if you have developed anything further to prevent any rotational movement in the Kanstul flugel? I have the second version you made in mid May and that still works fine, but I notice I can spin the valve around and I find that a little disconcerting that it doesn't 'catch' like it would with the old brass valve guides. |
@ Riojazz : I am very happy to hear that the Harmonic Waterkey Plug fit well onto your Shires, and better yet that your horn responded well!
I thought I would mention real quick: the plugs were made not to directly effect the sound of the instrument they are installed onto, but to directly or primarily produce an "even flow and distribution of notal tones throughout the general section of tubing”. In other words, to alter a point of resistance efficiently in the section of tubing where the lever waterkey assembly is positioned.
From that direct effect though, the indirect or secondary effect of there being a slight change in the instrument's sound can be a result of having HWPs equipped—all depending on the player. Other folks that have HWPs equipped onto their horns tell me that they notice a more evenness in response and feel the resistance to be more balanced throughout the entire range of the instrument. Low G’s and Ab’s are less stuffy, high C’s are a little more clear in tone and not as distorted. There is also improvement with some notes when it comes to intonation.
Things that I have heard and noticed on the HWPs, but thought I would quick mention.
Now back to the EVGs! …
When it comes to the rotational movement of the new-style Kanstul EVGs, the dogbones have been redesigned to be tighter up against the spring barrel, yes. Unfortunately, due to the factory design of the new-style Kanstul pistons and casings, there is only one slot instead of two for the valve guide to seat into, resulting in there still being some rotational movement. The movement is significantly less when compared to the OEM setup though. If the new-style design had two slots on the valve guide and the valve casing, it would be very tight.
Quick regarding the spinning of your piston Riojazz: I have found that there can be some slight inconsistencies with OEM Kanstul guides and valve casing slots—anywhere between 0.010”-0.015” sometimes. Unfortunate of there being manufacturing inconsistencies, yes…but, since the EVG dogbones are made of a durable thermoplastic ABS material, they can be lightly trimmed (with a razor blade) on the tooth side of the dogbone to better fit into your Kanstul’s valve casings—resulting in a more dialed-in and tighter rotational fit when compared to OEM.
This has not been the case with other major brands, thank goodness; but if it does ever take place, the dogbones can easily be altered to fit tight onto your horn’s valve casings.
I hope this helps. Let me know if there is anything else of concern and I would be happy to assist as best as I can. Thank you!
Best regards,
Jacob Hoskins
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https://bajocmusic.com/
I am driven to work generously in the service of others' musical creativity. |
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Riojazz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 1015
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Many thanks for the new information and your thorough reply. Everything is working fine so I won't mess with success.
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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