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NYTrumpet2018 Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2017 Posts: 57 Location: New York
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:46 pm Post subject: King Silver Flair |
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Hello,
I recently tried a King Silver Flair 2055t from the 1960's SN 412889 and it sounded and felt great, didn't get it for other reasons. I am looking at a King Silver Flair 1055T from the 1960's SN 414958 and a 1980's King SIlver flair 2055T
1) Were both the 1055 and 2055 created back then, I thought the 2055's were 'newer".
2) If I enjoyed the 2055T from the 60's would I be as satisfied with the 1055T or with the 2055T from the 80's?
Hope this is not too confusing,
Thanks |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1991 Location: WI
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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To the best of my knowledge, the 2055T was created around the time that UMI acquired King Musical Instruments (1985). It is newer than the 1055T. How do you know that the horn you tried with serial number 412889 was a 2055T rather than a 1055T? Did it have one brace between the upper and lower main tuning slide tubes, or two?
The 1055T from the 60's is a very fine pro-level horn. The 2055T from the 80's is a decent horn, but was built and sold as an "intermediate" model. I'm pretty sure you would be much more satisfied with a 1055T in decent condition, regardless of the mystery surrounding the horn you tried previously. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thefish1 Regular Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 32
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds to me that the Silver Flair with the serial number #412889 is an early Silver Flair and not a UMI Silver Flair. I own a 1972 King Silver Flair with the serial number that starts with 471... so that one is a bit older than what I have. So, tell us if it has one or two support braces on the main tuning slide. One brace then it's an older Silver Flair and not the UMI version. _________________ Vintage 1971 KMI King Silver Flair 1055t
1992 UMI King Silver Flair 2055t
Giardinelli 7VM / 7F gold rim
Vintage 1965 King Cleveland Superior Cornet
Vintage 1965 King Herald Trumpet
Vintage 1977 Benge Flugelhorn #5 Bell
Vintage 1918 KING Liberty 1050 |
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NYTrumpet2018 Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2017 Posts: 57 Location: New York
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Hello
Thank you for the replies. It appears it has just one brace on the main tuning slide so I assume the horn was just labeled wrong by the seller.
Subjective question: Would it make more sense to buy a used horn directly from H.N. White rather than a commercial store, or is it irrelevant? |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:04 am Post subject: |
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NYTrumpet2018 wrote: | Hello
Thank you for the replies. It appears it has just one brace on the main tuning slide so I assume the horn was just labeled wrong by the seller.
Subjective question: Would it make more sense to buy a used horn directly from H.N. White rather than a commercial store, or is it irrelevant? |
Depends. Horns from H.N. White are fully restored and near perfect to perfect condition and Chris Charvat is a descendant of Henderson White( founder of H.N. White and great to deal with.. . I have one that I purchased from them that Mike Del Quadro was used for the restoration and it is an amazing horn. Its a 1965 super 20 silversonic with a 1st trigger. I paid 1700.00 for it. Now for comparison I picked up its sister cornet off ebay for 700.00 then put 1050.00 into restoration with rich Ita and it is just as good. They make a great pair.
I also picked up a 1966 1055t silver flair from salvation army in near mint condition for 475.00, so buying used in great condition is a great option too.
_________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Last edited by chef8489 on Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:46 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3626
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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There was no 2055T in the 1960s. The Silver Flair at that time was the 1055T. King Musical Instruments ceased production of the Silver Flair, the Symphony Super 20, etc in 1979 and in 1980 introduced a whole new pro trumpet line called the 2000 Series. They had one-piece bells and the KING emblem and model number were engraved along the side of the bell (2000, 2001, 2006, cornet 2003, etc.)
When UMI took over KMI, they dropped the 2000 Series professional horns and just offered the 2055T Silver Flair positioned as an intermediate pro horn. Conn-Selmer still makes this model 2055T. (I was a KMI dealer during that era.) _________________ C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C mouthpieces |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Go to the website HN white and look at the serial # listing, this is clearly a 1055t. I have a beautiful one I purchased on 1966 and I am pretty sure it was sold as that years model but who knows how long it sat at Gorbys. It is a great horn but I found a thinner bell at Eclipse and swapped a perfect bell for the Eclipse. It was a good move for me as it is easier to move around above hi c. Never had problems before I quit playing for almost 5 decades, but old age takes its toll and the thinner bell helps. If you can get a 1055 in good shape with no mechanical issues for less than 1000$ I would advise you to give it a shot. I have had many, many horns I paid over 2500-3000$ for that didn’t play any better. In its current configuration I only have 2 horns that play better, 1 at almost 6000$ new and the other an almost new 1955 super 20 s1 King that I paid 2350$ for and consider it a unicorn and one of the best horns I’ve played at any price. So if you’re looking for a hi level pro horn that plays on par with the best check it out. And I do have a pristine bell if u need it.
Rod |
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ArtandSons Regular Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2016 Posts: 32
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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The King Silver Flair (1055T) is possibly the most underrated vintage trumpet of it's era. Superb short throw valves and depending on mouthpiece it covers a wide range of playing applications. Perfect balance (which few posters talk about) and built in quality. |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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ArtandSons wrote: | The King Silver Flair (1055T) is possibly the most underrated vintage trumpet of it's era. Superb short throw valves and depending on mouthpiece it covers a wide range of playing applications. Perfect balance (which few posters talk about) and built in quality. |
Yep the Silver Flair is a pretty great horn. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 655
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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ArtandSons wrote: | The King Silver Flair (1055T) is possibly the most underrated vintage trumpet of it's era. Superb short throw valves and depending on mouthpiece it covers a wide range of playing applications. Perfect balance (which few posters talk about) and built in quality. |
Completely agree. These horns are hugely underrated (along with the Olds Opera, imo). They are surprisingly lightweight and are fantastic players. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent horn. Feels similar to my Getzen Eterna Severinsen. I like the clean look of no etching on the bell, the name appears on the mouthpiece receiver. The valves on the King are good though they don't have the made to NASA specs feel of the Eterna.
Here's a 1965 ad. Herb Alpert also played one for a while.
_________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:23 am; edited 2 times in total |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | Excellent horn. Feels similar to my Getzen Eterna Severinsen - the valves on the King are good though they don't have the made to NASA specs feel of the Eterna.
Here's a 1965 ad. Herb Alpert also played one for a while.
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I have a couple of the vintage ads hanging on my wall.
_________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:14 am Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | Robert P wrote: | Excellent horn. Feels similar to my Getzen Eterna Severinsen - the valves on the King are good though they don't have the made to NASA specs feel of the Eterna.
Here's a 1965 ad. Herb Alpert also played one for a while.
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I have a couple of the vintage ads hanging on my wall.
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Excellent! From your sig it seems you really like Kings! _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 870 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | chef8489 wrote: | Robert P wrote: | Excellent horn. Feels similar to my Getzen Eterna Severinsen - the valves on the King are good though they don't have the made to NASA specs feel of the Eterna.
Here's a 1965 ad. Herb Alpert also played one for a while.
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I have a couple of the vintage ads hanging on my wall.
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Excellent! From your sig it seems you really like Kings! | I have a long history and fondness with kings. Started on a king 600 in 85 I think then switched to Bach in high school and in symphony work. When I was in the military I traded in my 600 for either a 2000at or a silver flair in 96. I can't remember what model it was, but it was cheaper than a Bach and I had no credit and that was what I could finance. Over the years I have had several king models from 2055t several times to silversonics to what I currently have in my stable. I'd l9ve to get a 1985 king 600 in mint condition for nostalgic reasons and several other King models eventually, but some other horns are needed first. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Just a general comment - if anyone is getting excited by the comments on this thread for a Silver Flair, now's the time to buy.
I've been looking for a Golden Flair and my searches inevitably default to Silver Flair and I can attest that there are plenty available, and prices are reasonably low. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1991 Location: WI
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | Robert P wrote: | Excellent! From your sig it seems you really like Kings! | I have a long history and fondness with kings. Started on a king 600 in 85 I think then switched to Bach in high school and in symphony work. When I was in the military I traded in my 600 for either a 2000at or a silver flair in 96. I can't remember what model it was, but it was cheaper than a Bach and I had no credit and that was what I could finance. Over the years I have had several king models from 2055t several times to silversonics to what I currently have in my stable. I'd l9ve to get a 1985 king 600 in mint condition for nostalgic reasons and several other King models eventually, but some other horns are needed first. |
Shakespeare said it best:
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416) _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome."
LOL _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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NYTrumpet2018 Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2017 Posts: 57 Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for the replies, they were very helpful.
I am going to 'pull the trigger' on one of these two: 1) a 1960's Silver Flair, or 2) a 1970's Severinsen Eterna.
I know it is a matter of personal preference to who likes which better but if I may ask: Which of the two would be more aptly suited to all types of genres of music , and what would be the qualities and the negatives of each trumpet?
Thank you |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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NYTrumpet2018 wrote: | Thank you all for the replies, they were very helpful.
I am going to 'pull the trigger' on one of these two: 1) a 1960's Silver Flair, or 2) a 1970's Severinsen Eterna.
I know it is a matter of personal preference to who likes which better but if I may ask: Which of the two would be more aptly suited to all types of genres of music , and what would be the qualities and the negatives of each trumpet?
Thank you |
I have sentimental attachment to my Silver Flair since I bought it new in high school but you can't beat the valves on the Eterna, the Eterna might have a tad more sparkle on high notes - or it might not. From the specs I find the King has a .462 bore but it and the Getzen at .460 blow about the same to me.
I think the Amado water keys on the Getzen are really cool. Doc played an Eterna. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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ArtandSons Regular Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2016 Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Tough call between those two horns...the SF or the Eterna. I am partial to my King but my son played an Eterna for years and the valves remained smooth even though he didn't take care of the horn the way it should have been |
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