Eb/D trumpets.....the Schiller and tha Berkeley model

[alty62244]

Can any member help me with experience re: 2 different Eb/D trumpets.....the Schiller and tha Berkeley model (leadpipe going directly into 3rd valve). Considering one or both.

Thank you all,
Alan Altman

[Crazy Finn]

So, you want to play tennis.

There's tennis racquers at a tennis shop and then tend to be pretty expensive, like $200-300 per racquet. Woh.

Then there's tennis racquets at Target and Walmart. They're like $20. Yeah, baby.

I mean they're the same thing, right?
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[LittleRusty]

It is interesting that in the years I have been on TH I seldom see a discussion about Berkeley instruments. If they were sleepers, unknown gems, I suspect we would have heard about it. On the other hand if they are a total waste of money and people have been purchasing them I would expect to have heard about that too.

[huntman10]

I will offer my 2 cents. I have owned the Berkeley Eb/D short bell. Bad intonation, both the partials and the slide lengths are not quite right. I tried the long bell Eb/D with the S shaped leadpipe. About the same, but the response was disappointing, as well. Their pic was better, the 4 valve with the screw off bell. But not great. I had a lot of pic trumpet experience, so I could use it for a few shows, but it was not a great horn, a little tricky intonation, and not one to last long, either.

I have not played the ones with the leadpipe bent down and the switchable tuning bells. I would expect them to be the same. I believe the Schillers and Berkeley instruments come off the same lines.

If you just want something to knock around on, have fun, and 8t might give you a little experience, but don't expect a lot. Or a horn for critical performance. If you watch eBay, you might get one of the tuning bell models for $300 or less.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[imccready]

So I just picked up a Schiller Eb/D in the tuning bell configuration last week. The horn appears to be a stencil of the Yamaha 9610. I have been wanting an Eb just for messing around and learning something different. Obviously I didn't want to drop a bunch of cash on a pro horn that, let's be honest, I don't need. I was very interested in a Wessex. Of course if you get a Wessex you will get a decent instrument, but the silver version of this horn costs $905 and is backordered at present. As far as I am aware the Schiller horns come out of the same factory in china, but Wessex like other reputable sellers of Chinese horns do some finishing work and QA before they sell them to the customer. Im not far from Jim Laabs so I drove there to play the horn and do my own scrutinizing before considering buying it. I'm actually not far from Wessex either and I am disappointed they did not have them in stock because I would have loved to compare the two.

The horn sounds like an Eb trumpet should. It appears reasonably well constructed, albeit with a certain lack of refinement that you can expect from an instrument like this. I washed it twice at home to remove some residues and grit, and the corks on the water keys are very short so I will be replacing them. The valves move freely and smoothly. Slides too. Intonation is ok, mostly problematic because the 2nd valve uses the same slide for Eb and D, so it is flat in the Eb configuration. The open harmonic series is pretty good according to my strobe tuner. Overall the trumpet is fine. Not excellent, but surprisingly not awful either. Certainly good enough for what I was looking for and it is a lot of fun to play.

I paid $500, after a bit a bargaining with the salesperson. It seems if you are looking for something cheap but playable, as long as you can play the horn before you buy it I wouldn't discount Schiller. If you aren't within a drive and want to be sure you get something that isn't terrible, Wessex is probably a much safer bet.
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Getzen Custom Series 3051
Kanstul 1600
Getzen 300 cornet
Schiller Eb/D

[mike ansberry]

I believe there are two Berkeley instrument companies. There is the RS Berkeley company and the Berkeley Winds company.
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[Rwwilson]

I have run across another Eb/D that seems to lie at a price point between the low priced Berkeley and Schiller and the better rated much higher priced horns. It is the Eastman ETR540. Dillon Music offers it new for about $2000. I found some earlier posts claiming that this horn was a good value.

[falado]

Hi, I’m finishing my 1st year as a grad trumpet performance students. I had to play Ed on one concert band piece and used my Yamaha 761. It did fine. We might be doing the Hindemith Bb next school year. Since I’ll be playin more Ed and D stuff I’m selling my Yamaha 761. I recently sent an older Bach I’m not using to Charlie Melk and having it converted because I’ve heard some good things about the converted Bachs.

Have you considered getting a used Eb? I’ve seen some out there, yes they are expensive, but here’s what I’ve discovered when it comes to buying trumpets. You usually get what you pay for. So, if I were to get an off shore horn, I would assume, ok, I tried to avoid that word, that the horn will have intonation and probably playing issues. On the up side, playing issues can make you work harder and might improve playing in other areas. In the long run, however, I strive to make playing easier and use what I can play so I sound good, with good intonation, and don’t miss.
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FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet

[huntman10]

I got my Eastman Eb D at a real low price because it had some real intonation issues. I took it to my repair guy, who found a large bur where the water key hole had been drilled in the Eb main slide. 30 seconds with a small tool and WOW! I compared it with a Yamaha YTR 761 I had sold to a friend. Intonation was on par, tone was a bit different, but mouthpiece changes levelled the field. I'm not saying it is pro level, but for wedding gigs and occasional Hallelujah Chorus gigs, it will do nicely.

It is a solid construction, comes in a great case, and with a little quality control checkout, I can recommend it.

But on the other hand, getting a new one at full price, or a used Strad EL 239 for a similar price (although the Strad might be more taxing) might be considered. I have not tried the B&S which you might find used. If you just need Eb or D, you might look for an older Getzen Eterna in Eb or D. I have played those. With the right mouthpiece they are great. I think there was a long belled Eterna Eb with D slides a for a few years that was good but very rare.

I have a Getzen 300 series Eb/D (have owned several). The 300 series will drive you mad with intonation and that pic size bell! Although I did compare the 300 with the 70's Eterna D (they catalogued 2 long bell D Eternas back then, this one is M bore) with the 300 Eb D. Other than the bell, main slide and longer main slide receiver tubes, finger buttons and caps, they were indentical, including the lead pipe. So change out the bell, lop off a bit of the inner and outer main slide tubes, and you could make a 300 into the Eterna,more or less. I have also heard of leaving the bell on the 300, change the pipe, lop off some slide length, and make it a high F. But I digress!

Speaking of digression, I have a perverse plan for cutting a Severinsen damaged bell to Eb body, and scotching it to the 300 valveset with a different lead pipe. A Severinsen eefer! Probably why my repair guy got that eye tic.
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huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

The Chinese instruments are coming along. My take on things is that:
1. Manufacturers differ some so it can be hard to compare apples to apples (How many places are making a D/Eb trumpet? Are the D/Ebs offered by Schiller/Wessex/Eastman the same or different?)
2. In general some models are better than others (for instance, Trent Austin said that they've tried to source a C doubler trumpet but in the past couldn't find one that was good enough).
3. I am highly dubious of how much value added you get via Wessex, JP, Mack Brass, Schiller, etc. Some of them claim they do extra interventions. I think the best case is that they handle the import process, weed out obviously defective instruments, and offer some guarantee/return process.
4. The instruments seem to be improving over time. For instance, the newer euphoniums have fewer problems with double threading, etc. It sounds like some of the D/Ebs are pretty good.

I'm really curious what experience others have had with these.

[huntman10]

[trickg]

[HaveTrumpetWillTravel]

I think the brasspire is a distinct brand, sold out of Japan (but possibly sourced somewhere else). I was just saying that ACB puts out their own line including flugelhorn, piccolo, euphonium, and cornet. But they haven't put out their own C because they haven't found something they feel comfortable offering.

I do think the Chinese instruments are really improving. Eastman is a good example. It sounds like the jinbao-type Dd/E is still not great yet. On Alibaba those sell for ~$350.

[trickg]