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MacMichael
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 Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: Why is cornet easier to play than trumpet (for me)? |
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I was wondering why I am presently getting along by far better on cornet (shepherd´s crook as well as long model) than on any trumpet I play.
Is it a mouthpiece issue only?
I cover more or less the same range on both types of instruments, but on cornet, that happens with ease, whereas on trumpet I really have to work harder. |
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p76
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought, but generally speaking cornets have less resistance than trumpets - find youself a free-blowing horn to try and see if that makes a difference?
Cheers,
Roger
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oldblow
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Cornet playing easier than trumpet is a strange phenomenon. It occurs in lowland US, just as it does in lowland Europe. I've heard instances of it in the US midlands, far west, and Austrian highlands, as well.
It is easily explained as an awareness, like love itself, that comes quietly into your playing, much like a cat's paw quietly creeping across the dawn light. A cornet becomes your close friend, your lover, your way of expressing all music, and is not jealous of the song of other cornets.
You will secretly come to feel that trumpets are strident beasts, best muzzled by large diameter, deep throat, large drill mouthpieces, to give them a voice fit for civilized music.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| oldblow wrote: | Cornet playing easier than trumpet is a strange phenomenon. It occurs in lowland US, just as it does in lowland Europe. I've heard instances of it in the US midlands, far west, and Austrian highlands, as well.
It is easily explained as an awareness, like love itself, that comes quietly into your playing, much like a cat's paw quietly creeping across the dawn light. A cornet becomes your close friend, your lover, your way of expressing all music, and is not jealous of the song of other cornets.
You will secretly come to feel that trumpets are strident beasts, best muzzled by large diameter, deep throat, large drill mouthpieces, to give them a voice fit for civilized music. |
I like this post. 
I think a good part of it has to do with the placement of the valves along the horns length, the braces and the (generally) more open radii of the wrap.
Another significant factor is the mouthpiece shank.
Brian
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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RandyTX
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: |
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A cornet is more like a great soloist in an opera, where a trumpet is more like a bicycle horn being mashed repeatedly by a grade schooler.
As we know, most of the general population would much rather listen to their children make ridiculous noises, while filming them on their HD mini-cam than go to the opera and hear great music.
"Popular" rarely indicates actual greatness.
Congratulations on finding out what humanity used to know in abundance. The cornet is the jewel of the brass section.
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MacMichael
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| oldblow wrote: | It is easily explained as an awareness, like love itself, that comes quietly into your playing, much like a cat's paw quietly creeping across the dawn light. A cornet becomes your close friend, your lover, your way of expressing all music, and is not jealous of the song of other cornets.
You will secretly come to feel that trumpets are strident beasts, best muzzled by large diameter, deep throat, large drill mouthpieces, to give them a voice fit for civilized music. |
You nail it, that is precisely how I feel, and I dig the metaphorical analogy as well. There is poetry in cornet that wants to get out for sure! 
| RandyTX wrote: | A cornet is more like a great soloist in an opera, where a trumpet is more like a bicycle horn being mashed repeatedly by a grade schooler. [...]
Congratulations on finding out what humanity used to know in abundance. The cornet is the jewel of the brass section. |
That one made my day, Randy 
Why bother with those nasty trumpets at all then I wonder 
On a more serious side, the bore/resistance-ratio is not necessarily the point, to me there is something about the deeper cups of cornet mouthpiece that appear to an beneficial factor for the ease of playing.
And finally, one should never forget that I am also a trombonist in disguise  |
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laurent
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:20 am Post subject: |
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A cornet is less conical than a flugel, but more than a trumpet.
And the more conical is a horn the softer is the waveform, which means that less efforts are needed to produce the sound.
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BillyM
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| A cornet, especially the short model, is a very intimate instrument. The bell is closer to your ear and you become apart of the sound. |
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| p76 wrote: | Just a thought, but generally speaking cornets have less resistance than trumpets - find youself a free-blowing horn to try and see if that makes a difference?
Cheers,
Roger |
Roger,
That might be just a function of the mouthpiece throat. Put a tight throated mouthpiece on a cornet and the resistance will go up same as it does in a trumpet. |
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tptptp
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:32 am Post subject: |
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Three things:
Remember Herbert Clarke's letter: http://www.musicbyjoelill.com/benge/Clarke.htm
How hard is it to switch feel-wise between trumpet and cornet, say on stage?
Why did trumpet become dominant, even in quiet and miked settings.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| tptptp wrote: | Three things:
Remember Herbert Clarke's letter: http://www.musicbyjoelill.com/benge/Clarke.htm
How hard is it to switch feel-wise between trumpet and cornet, say on stage?
Why did trumpet become dominant, even in quiet and miked settings. |
I think one reason the trumpet displaced the cornet is that the music society listened to left the softer, quieter decades of the horse-driven economy and embraced the mechanical rhythm and sounds of the industrial revolution. Big Bands were bold, brassy, hard hitting ensembles that reflected the growing dominance of trains, plains and automobiles. Trumpets fit, cornets got put out to pasture, as it were.
My contemplation,
Brian
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Flattergrub
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Here is an experiment to try.
1. Grab a Bb cornet. Any cornet, and insert a Wick 3 mouthpiece and turn to the back of Arban's and start playing down all the solos. Do that for an hour or two and put in extra time on the double and triple tonguing sections.
2. Now grab a Bb trumpet. Any trumpet, and insert a Bach 1.5 C mouthpiece and turn to the back of Arban's and start playing down all the solos. Do that for an hour or two. Put extra time in on the double and triple tonguing sections.
Still think the cornet is easier ?????
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RandyTX
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| laurent wrote: | | A cornet is less conical than a flugel, but more than a trumpet. |
I believe that there was a time when this was actually a substantial difference, but it is long since ceased to be true, despite being repeated often everywhere you go.
Originally trumpets were far more cylindrical than they are now, which made them harder to play. I think modern trumpets have adopted many of the characteristics of the cornet (other than the wrap and mouthpiece) in an effort to make them slot better and easier to play.
Consider this as some form of "evidence" in the case I'm attempting to make above...
http://robbstewart.com/Essays/TrumpetSchmumpet.html
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Flattergrub wrote: | Here is an experiment to try.
1. Grab a Bb cornet. Any cornet, and insert a Wick 3 mouthpiece and turn to the back of Arban's and start playing down all the solos. Do that for an hour or two and put in extra time on the double and triple tonguing sections.
2. Now grab a Bb trumpet. Any trumpet, and insert a Bach 1.5 C mouthpiece and turn to the back of Arban's and start playing down all the solos. Do that for an hour or two. Put extra time in on the double and triple tonguing sections.
Still think the cornet is easier ????? |
Add #3. Free-buzzing the entire set of exercises without any horn. |
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HornnOOb
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| oldblow wrote: | Cornet playing easier than trumpet is a strange phenomenon. It occurs in lowland US, just as it does in lowland Europe. I've heard instances of it in the US midlands, far west, and Austrian highlands, as well.
It is easily explained as an awareness, like love itself, that comes quietly into your playing, much like a cat's paw quietly creeping across the dawn light. A cornet becomes your close friend, your lover, your way of expressing all music, and is not jealous of the song of other cornets.
You will secretly come to feel that trumpets are strident beasts, best muzzled by large diameter, deep throat, large drill mouthpieces, to give them a voice fit for civilized music. |
This almost gave me a little wood . . . . 
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chuck in ny
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: |
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the trumpet makes a bit better instrument for dance bands catering to swells in the back when era.
love to stay and chat but i have to go out and lindy hop.
..chuck |
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AJCarter
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| tptptp wrote: | Three things:
Remember Herbert Clarke's letter: http://www.musicbyjoelill.com/benge/Clarke.htm
How hard is it to switch feel-wise between trumpet and cornet, say on stage?
Why did trumpet become dominant, even in quiet and miked settings. |
Yeah.. look how that worked out for Clarke. Brian nailed it, as usual!
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Accordion Ron
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Speaking of a "cornet" mouthpiece in a trumpet, I've got a Schilke 8E2 for sale in Marketplace. |
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Dale Proctor
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:04 am Post subject: |
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A good cornet can't be beat for sheer enjoyment of playing. They are easier to do certain things on, but I agree, endurance is generally better on a trumpet. I'm not sure this isn't mainly a result of the respective mouthpieces used, though.
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oxleyk
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I'm borrowing an 1876 Besson Bb cornet that a friend had restored to like-new condition. I can now understand how Clarke could recommend repeating his studies 16 times or more. It's just so easy to play with very little air. I could never do that on trumpet. However, when pushing more air there still isn't much volume in sound. Makes me wonder how players could survive in a band with these. Maybe bands weren't as loud back then to accommodate the cornet players.
Kent |
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