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Fernando Nava
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Joined: 23 Feb 2023
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 Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 2:24 am Post subject: Boiling a trumpet |
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Guys im very curious and want professional information on what would happen if you boiled a trumpet??
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fernando nava |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 3118
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Eating it will still be problematic. |
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Divitt Trumpets
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Joined: 11 Aug 2015
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Location: Toronto
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 2017
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | Eating it will still be problematic. |
I recommend deep-frying after applying a coating of bread crumbs.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jerry
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Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2177
Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Divitt Trumpets wrote: | | If it is lacquered, there is a good chance you will ruin the lacquer. |
What about solder? Will the spit valve come off? |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 2017
Location: WI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Jerry wrote: | | Divitt Trumpets wrote: | | If it is lacquered, there is a good chance you will ruin the lacquer. |
What about solder? Will the spit valve come off? |
Different metals expand at different rates under extreme heat. Rubber and plastics deform or melt. I wonder whether exposure to heat high enough to boil water would cause different metals soldered together to expand at different rates and crack the solder. Another thought -- could plated finishes develop cracks? (I assume that knowledgeable techs could speak definitively to these musings.)
If the aim of boiling would be to sterilize the trumpet, there are less disruptive ways to achieve this (chem-cleaning, for example?). I have to imagine the alternative methods developed and used by techs imply that boiling is not a good option.
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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88h
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Joined: 01 Mar 2023
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Melting temp of solder is about 190 C, and boiling is only 100 C, so boiling wont cause the solder to melt. Lacquer comes in different types, some more resistant to temperature than others, but I think you could expect some lacquer damage (or removal if that's your goal). Epoxy-based lacquer is more temp resistant than other kinds.
You might also get some warping and maybe cracks due to uneven heating. Putting it into boiling water would be more destructive than putting it in room temp water and raising it to boiling. It could potentially warp your valve casings, in which case your valves wouldn't work well any more.
I would think stripping off the parts that come off or out would be safest, boiling it with everything in it would cause bigger temp gradients.
Beyond that, I can't think of a reason to boil an instrument. You can't anneal the brass at that low temperature, and cleaning it would be better done with other methods. |
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benlewis
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1019
Location: Memphis, TN
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 7:58 am Post subject: |
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It might be better to just run it through a sanitary cycle of a dishwasher...
HTH
Ben |
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1882
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Well, if you must try it, do it in distilled water.
I had the bright idea of sterilizing a silverplated mouthpiece in tap water in the microwave oven. It took a lot of polishing to correct that mistake.
Old Conn instruments with epoxy finishes would probably survive - probably.
Well, if you must try it, do it in distilled water.
I had the bright idea of sterilizing a silverplated mouthpiece in tap water in the microwave oven. It took a lot of polishing to correct that mistake.
Old Conn instruments with epoxy finishes would probably survive - probably.
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And the story goes something like this - a traveling trumpet player stops by a small village and asks for something to eat. Everyone turns the musician down. Fortunately the trumpet player has a large pot that they fill with water - build a fire - and put their trumpet in the boiling water. Curious, the villagers ask what the trumpet player is doing. "Making trumpet soup" was the reply. "Pretty tasty but it would be better with maybe a bit of carrot or onion." ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Soup |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6210
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: | Well, if you must try it, do it in distilled water.
I had the bright idea of sterilizing a silverplated mouthpiece in tap water in the microwave oven. It took a lot of polishing to correct that mistake.
Old Conn instruments with epoxy finishes would probably survive - probably.
Well, if you must try it, do it in distilled water.
I had the bright idea of sterilizing a silverplated mouthpiece in tap water in the microwave oven. It took a lot of polishing to correct that mistake.
Old Conn instruments with epoxy finishes would probably survive - probably.
==================
And the story goes something like this - a traveling trumpet player stops by a small village and asks for something to eat. Everyone turns the musician down. Fortunately the trumpet player has a large pot that they fill with water - build a fire - and put their trumpet in the boiling water. Curious, the villagers ask what the trumpet player is doing. "Making trumpet soup" was the reply. "Pretty tasty but it would be better with maybe a bit of carrot or onion." ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Soup |
Groundhog Day? |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9193
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Well. I see a lot of answers, and I might've missed it, but I don't see the most important one. Why?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale).
Last edited by kehaulani on Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ebolton
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Joined: 03 Feb 2021
Posts: 123
Location: New Hampshire, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| 88h wrote: | Melting temp of solder is about 190 C, and boiling is only 100 C, so boiling wont cause the solder to melt. Lacquer comes in different types, some more resistant to temperature than others, but I think you could expect some lacquer damage (or removal if that's your goal). Epoxy-based lacquer is more temp resistant than other kinds.
You might also get some warping and maybe cracks due to uneven heating. Putting it into boiling water would be more destructive than putting it in room temp water and raising it to boiling. It could potentially warp your valve casings, in which case your valves wouldn't work well any more.
I would think stripping off the parts that come off or out would be safest, boiling it with everything in it would cause bigger temp gradients.
Beyond that, I can't think of a reason to boil an instrument. You can't anneal the brass at that low temperature, and cleaning it would be better done with other methods. |
Remember too the vessel holding the 100° water might be significantly hotter than 100°C. Best to suspend the trumpet in the water because if it touches the pot, brass conducts heat well enough you could lose solder integrity.
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Daniel Barenboim
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Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 250
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Bud did this with all his gold plated instruments. Helped the sound!
DB |
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tptptp
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Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 1411
Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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I've been very angry at my trumpet many times, but I've never considered torture.
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Divitt Trumpets
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Joined: 11 Aug 2015
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Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Jerry wrote: | | Divitt Trumpets wrote: | | If it is lacquered, there is a good chance you will ruin the lacquer. |
What about solder? Will the spit valve come off? |
No.
I've boiled many trumpets to remove lacquer..never had any issues with the structure of the instrument. Water isn't nearly hot enough.
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SilverSpunk
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Joined: 17 Oct 2022
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Boiling is usually the process to remove old vintage nitrocellulose lacquer.
If you're boiling to clean the horn there are better methods out there that involves simple water and soap.
Last edited by SilverSpunk on Thu Mar 02, 2023 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3380
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Do remove the valve pistons and top caps to avoid damaging the felts.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Shaft
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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🙄
Last edited by Shaft on Fri Mar 03, 2023 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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delano
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| You are 100% right Shaft only it will none of the usual suspects stop posting, don't ask me why. |
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tptptp
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Location: Georgia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Yes. I am sorry about my frivolous, unhelpful post. Please forgive me.
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Craig Mitchell |
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