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jvf1095 Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:46 am Post subject: Compression? |
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Hello All. I'm just getting the "hang" of using compression along with tongue arch to hit high notes more efficiently & cleanly. BUT...I do have a question. When you play, do you keep your stomach just slightly pulled in (say, in a "ready state") all the time, & pull in specifically for a particular note? Or do you keep it totally relaxed & pull in when you have to? Thanks!! |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 5:56 am Post subject: |
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I think of it as a bellows, contracting as you expel air and expanding when you inhale, keeping your abdomen relatively firm as you do this.
It doesn't have to be complicated, although I'm sure there will be some who feel more comfortable explaining it so. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1779
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:06 am Post subject: |
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When you say "compression," to what are you referring?
But to address the next part of the question, unless you are playing lead trumpet (which I am not experienced in) or making MASSIVE changes in tessitura or dynamics, there won't be much change to your level of engagement (whether that be very loose or tight, whatever you subscribe to or unless you have a habit of expending all your air instead of rebreathing). So consciously pulling in for one note and loosening for another, will generally lead to inconsistency, if you plan on playing that way consciously forever.
I view efficiency as reducing the amount or the severity of the moving parts for the same or better result. As such, I recommend doing most of the work from "the chin up" (as Jay Friedman put it in his articles). So, consistency in the way you are blowing (relatively little change) and allow the magic to happen in the area where the air, lips, and tongue meet. A different way to put it is: my "ready state" is in my mouth/lips. |
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jvf1095 Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:49 am Post subject: |
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I get what both kehaulani & abontrumpet are saying, and both for different reasons. If I was playing a song that really doesn't go above a 4th line "D", I would keep my stomach fairly relaxed, with no need to particularly contract as I believe you are alluding to abontrumpet? BUT, I like the idea of what kehaulani is describing, keeping the abdomen relatively firm as you play, and contracting (or being ready to contract) when you need it. (I think that's what you're saying kehaulani)? This I feel also tends to make one sit up straight in a good posture position when playing which helps you breath more efficiently, & being ready to (at least in my case at this point in my trumpet journey), hit anything above a 4th line "D" clean & with good tone. Trying this approach out, I am able at this point to hit a "G" or even an "A" above the staff precisely. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1779
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:58 am Post subject: |
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jvf1095 wrote: | I would keep my stomach fairly relaxed, with no need to particularly contract as I believe you are alluding to abontrumpet? BUT, I like the idea of what kehaulani is describing, keeping the abdomen relatively firm as you play, and contracting (or being ready to contract) when you need it. |
It's not quite what I'm saying. I am purposely leaving it a bit broad so that I'm not prescribing what your sensation should be. It's not possible to play with 0 effort, but I am saying let's find out where we can do the least for the most. I still believe that you will almost never need to "suddenly" contract the abdomen in most instances if you are able to rely on the factors I mentioned above while finding a level of engagement that isn't too forceful and let's you do what you need to do. |
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Al Innella Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2008 Posts: 755 Location: Levittown NY
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:24 am Post subject: |
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If you can yell, you have enough force . |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3306 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I don't do any specific 'breathing technique' / 'internal air compression technique' while playing.
But I'm not familiar with 'above high C' or 'lead' / 'scream' playing.
What I DO to create higher internal air pressure is just 'blow harder' - and without guided thought or action about precisely what muscles are being used. I do not concern myself about what portion of the lung is inflating, or what muscles are being used for inhale or exhale.
It is good to not wear trousers / belt, or shirt collar that is too tight.
You don't want to be fighting any sort of mechanical resistance to breathing.
Yes, some teachers have their own 'styles' and 'mannerisms' about breathing, but unless your natural style is not adequate to produce the necessary air flow, I doubt that any 'special attention' is needed. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9028 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Al Innella wrote: | If you can yell, you have enough force . |
Yes. The mysticism and highly complex and integreted process of wind support was explained to me by a long-time West Coast studio musician (on staff as first trpt. at Disney productions for example):
This young student, wanting to unravel the complexities of breathing, asked him, "How do you breathe?"
"Cough" he said.
I coughed.
"See", he said. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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jvf1095 Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I've got to digest all this. But I do see some relevance (at least with me) to keep the abdomen some what firm(not talking tight, crunches or any deliberate tension). And the coughing technique does contract or pull the abdomen in so it seems to create needed compression when called for. I have to see where this all fits in for me. But I am discovering that a compression technique similar to a cough, but perhaps less deliberate is working for me as I am beginning to play notes at the top or just above the staff nicely with a clean tone. Thanks! |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3306 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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For increased air pressure, there can be an internal feeling of controlled 'bearing down' in the abdomen region, but I don't think an explosive 'cough' action is often needed.
For notes that are at the top of the staff (and above), do you need more internal air pressure than you can comfortably supply?
If that's the situation, I'd ask if you have trouble blowing up balloons - some of them do require fairly high air pressure.
If balloons are not a problem, then perhaps you are creating excessive resistance to air flow through the lip aperture - maybe by high mouthpiece pressure destroying the aperture, or lips squeezing together.
Do you practice 'free lip buzzing'? If so, I suggest stopping the attempt to produce an actual 'buzz'. Just concentrate on controlled forming of the lip position and being able to blow a continuous stream of air through it.
Similar with mouthpiece buzzing - if a buzz happens, that's fine, but don't force the buzz. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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jvf1095 Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2019 Posts: 337
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Jay, funny, as far as my lungs or say blowing up a balloon, I took a breathing test last year as part of a physical, & my readings were off the charts! So no issue there! I agree that a forced or explosive cough action specifically is not needed, but more so, a controlled bearing down (& not over bearing) in the abdomen describes it best with everything in moderation when needed. As far as free lip buzzing, I will do some of that; & as far as mouthpiece buzzing, I will produce a buzz, even a quiet one & it's natural & never forced. As far as my aperture & embouchure; I'm finding that Lynn Nicholson, unfurling the lips, & creating an aperture tunnel that I believe Pop's talks about is starting to work well for me. It keeps me from jamming the mouthpiece into my teeth & face; this especially creating a more cushioned embouchure which helps me because I have thin lips. |
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