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Toronto54
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Yonge and Lawrence
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:55 am Post subject: Anyone know how to fix this? |
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Valve 2 not rebounding correctly, but only after certain combinations of notes.
Could it be this?
Already cleaned and recoiled 2 times.
Wait, how do I post a pic?[/img] |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Anyone know how to fix this? |
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| Toronto54 wrote: | | Wait, how do I post a pic?[/img] |
Read the last two posts in this thread:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=146974
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 990
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Taking it to a professional repair tech would probably be your best bet to get an answer. They likely won’t charge you just to diagnose the problem.
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1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
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Toronto54
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Joined: 03 Apr 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Yonge and Lawrence
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Posting a pic is too complex for this human.
The bottom disc thing is not seated properly.
Ie, Looking up from the bottom of the valve, one portion is sticking out and the other side is not flush. Like 1/2 a millimeter. |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Are you talking about the 'valve guide' that sets just above the 'valve port' section of the piston assembly? If it's that piece, then try using your fingers, or a plastic toothpick or coffee straw to wiggle it back into position - so it sets straight across the top of the 'valve port' section. There are little 'fingers' that need to go into the slots.
see here for a picture of typical parts -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trompette_-_premier_piston_-_montage_perspective.jpg
The 'valve guide' is the piece immediately below the spring.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I was going to post that second valve casings are prone to getting out of round when people place their horns on flat surfaces with the valve crook facing down.
However based on your last post I doubt that is it.
Last edited by LittleRusty on Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Toronto54
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Yonge and Lawrence
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Nope, not the plastic thing. The very bottom of the whole thing.
if you unscrewed the bottom cap and looked up. That thing. |
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ericmpena
Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2021
Posts: 262
Location: Kyle, TX
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:20 am Post subject: |
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How to post a pic.
- Upload your picture to Imgur.com
- Once uploaded, click on your picture to view it as large/full screen.
- copy the URL link in your browser WITH YOUR PICTURE OPENED. When you clicked on your picture in the previous step the URL was updated to your exact image.
- Come back to Trumpet Herald and click “Img”
- Input your URL directly after the ] and make sure there is no space.
- Click “Img” again and this time you’ll have the / meaning to end your URL.
- It should look something like this, but change my parenthesis to the brackets.
- You can always click Preview before you Submit to make sure it’s displaying the picture correctly.
(Img)ImageURL(/Img)
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ericmpena
Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2021
Posts: 262
Location: Kyle, TX
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Does your valve also not rebound correctly with no air going through the horn? Or does it only happen when you’re playing?
I had a 1st valve on an Edwards X-13 that wouldn’t rebound only when I was blowing fast air through the horn. I’ve also had an issue with my 2nd valve on a Strad that wouldn’t rebound correctly.
I never figured out how to fix either. With the Bach, I probably should’ve tried new felts. I hear that helps with alignment.
Have you tried taking it to a local repair shop? They can probably figure it out pretty quickly.
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Thane Performing Artist
www.youtube.com/ericmpena
https://thanetrumpets.com/ |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9032
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:47 am Post subject: |
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"How to post a pic.
- Upload your picture to Imgur.com
- Once uploaded, click on your picture to view it as large/full screen.
- copy the URL link in your browser WITH YOUR PICTURE OPENED. When you clicked on your picture in the previous step the URL was updated to your exact image.
- Come back to Trumpet Herald and click “Img”
- Input your URL directly after the ] and make sure there is no space.
- Click “Img” again and this time you’ll have the / meaning to end your URL.
- It should look something like this, but change my parenthesis to the brackets.
- You can always click Preview before you Submit to make sure it’s displaying the picture correctly."
Good Lord! On another Forum I frequent, all you have to do is Copy&Paste, directly and easily. Two clicks.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | "How to post a pic.
- Upload your picture to Imgur.com
- Once uploaded, click on your picture to view it as large/full screen.
- copy the URL link in your browser WITH YOUR PICTURE OPENED. When you clicked on your picture in the previous step the URL was updated to your exact image.
- Come back to Trumpet Herald and click “Img”
- Input your URL directly after the ] and make sure there is no space.
- Click “Img” again and this time you’ll have the / meaning to end your URL.
- It should look something like this, but change my parenthesis to the brackets.
- You can always click Preview before you Submit to make sure it’s displaying the picture correctly."
Good Lord! On another Forum I frequent, all you have to do is Copy&Paste, directly and easily. Two clicks. |
I’ll bet that the other forum isn’t running on software nearly twenty years old.
It will be interesting when Todd brings his new version of TH online. |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Toronto54 wrote: | Nope, not the plastic thing. The very bottom of the whole thing.
if you unscrewed the bottom cap and looked up. That thing. |
It sounds like you are talking about the bottom of your valve piston (assuming you have top-sprung valves). That probably should be looked at by a tech.
| LittleRusty wrote: | | I’ll bet that the other forum isn’t running on software nearly twenty years old. |
I try to console myself by thinking of it as 'well-tested'.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Toronto54 wrote: | Nope, not the plastic thing. The very bottom of the whole thing.
if you unscrewed the bottom cap and looked up. That thing. |
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Unscrew the other 2 bottom caps and see how the bottom end of those pistons look, compared to the 2nd valve piston.
They should all look nice and round with no bumps or dents.
If the bottom of the 2nd valve piston looks different, then perhaps it was dropped and got damaged.
With the top and bottom valve caps removed, the 3 valve casings should also all look similar - no bumps, dents, gouges, etc.
Do any of the valve pistons seem 'loose' in their casing - they should fit quite closely all the way around, and with only enough clearance for a film of oil.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Divitt Trumpets
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015
Posts: 520
Location: Toronto
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Toronto54
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Yonge and Lawrence
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ericmpena wrote: | Does your valve also not rebound correctly with no air going through the horn? Or does it only happen when you’re playing?
I had a 1st valve on an Edwards X-13 that wouldn’t rebound only when I was blowing fast air through the horn. I’ve also had an issue with my 2nd valve on a Strad that wouldn’t rebound correctly.
I never figured out how to fix either. With the Bach, I probably should’ve tried new felts. I hear that helps with alignment.
Have you tried taking it to a local repair shop? They can probably figure it out pretty quickly. |
I have not taken to a repair shop yet. I like tinkering after getting advice.
It only happens when I’m playing. But, Before I cleaned and re oiled, it would happen with no air almost every time. It would only rebound 80% of full rebound. |
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Toronto54
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Yonge and Lawrence
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Divitt Trumpets wrote: | | My shop is at Danforth and Woodbine. Bring it by and I'm happy to have a look at it. |
Thanks, fellow Torontonian. might see you soon.
Last edited by Toronto54 on Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Toronto54
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Yonge and Lawrence
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | Toronto54 wrote: | Nope, not the plastic thing. The very bottom of the whole thing.
if you unscrewed the bottom cap and looked up. That thing. |
--------------------
Unscrew the other 2 bottom caps and see how the bottom end of those pistons look, compared to the 2nd valve piston.
They should all look nice and round with no bumps or dents.
If the bottom of the 2nd valve piston looks different, then perhaps it was dropped and got damaged.
With the top and bottom valve caps removed, the 3 valve casings should also all look similar - no bumps, dents, gouges, etc.
Do any of the valve pistons seem 'loose' in their casing - they should fit quite closely all the way around, and with only enough clearance for a film of oil. |
No loose pistons. Other 2 pistons have no issues, just the middle one needs the bottom spacer reset. |
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Tuningbell
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 521
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have not taken to a repair shop yet. I like tinkering after getting advice. |
This is perhaps the worst and most frightening thing I’ve read on Trumpet Herald. One of the best trumpet builders is offering to look at your horn and solve your issue. You are headed down a road that will likely destroy your horn. I sarcastically suggest relapping the slide casing with 180grit wet/dry sandpaper, then try straightening the casing by sliding a drum stick into the slide tubes and then through the piston casing. This is not a DIY tinkering project. Seriously Go see Ewan!! It would help to know the make and model of the horn as well. Sometimes certain makes have known issues with metallurgy that can cause the piston to react with saliva and hang up. Yamaha’s and some Schilkes of a certain vintage (early 70’s) have this problem. It’s known as the Yamalloy curse. Judging by your lack of knowledge on trumpet instrument nomenclature I’m guessing trumpet is not your primary instrument. Your profile indicates you’re a music teacher. What is your specialty?
Last edited by Tuningbell on Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tuningbell
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 521
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I’m thinking it’s a cross threaded bottom cap. Caused by or causing the valve casing to be out of round. This is not a DIY REPAIR. It will require a skilled tech to diagnose and repair. The video below shows the types of issues you can have on the bottom caps.
https://youtu.be/epP1a118OVQ |
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Toronto54
New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2023
Posts: 8
Location: Yonge and Lawrence
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2023 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Tuningbell wrote: | | Quote: | | I have not taken to a repair shop yet. I like tinkering after getting advice. |
This is perhaps the worst and most frightening thing I’ve read on Trumpet Herald. One of the best trumpet builders is offering to look at your horn and solve your issue. You are headed down a road that will likely destroy your horn. I sarcastically suggest relapping the slide casing with 180grit wet/dry sandpaper, then try straightening the casing by sliding a drum stick into the slide tubes and then through the piston casing. This is not a DIY tinkering project. Seriously Go see Ewan!! It would help to know the make and model of the horn as well. Sometimes certain makes have known issues with metallurgy that can cause the piston to react with saliva and hang up. Yamaha’s and some Schilkes of a certain vintage (early 70’s) have this problem. It’s known as the Yamalloy curse. Judging by your lack of knowledge on trumpet instrument nomenclature I’m guessing trumpet is not your primary instrument. Your profile indicates you’re a music teacher. What is your specialty? |
I will go see Ewan….maybe Friday. I would never tinker with an “expensive” trumpet. Fear not.
From best to worst:
Guitar
Bass
Accordion
Drums
Banjo
Piano
Ukulele
Mandolin
Harmonica
Trumpet
Flute
Clarinet
Violin
I have 3 trumpets.
Used student model from long and McQuade
Ptrumpet, long and McQuade
Current trouble maker, “blessing” purchased Amazon, got it maybe 2 weeks ago. |
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