Superfast Valve Springs? whats up with these?

HMHustead · Regular Member Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 73

Anyone ever come across those super fast valve springs? They say they make the valves go faster...I guess they have more tension. Anyone that knows about this, let me know. Thanks!

_FELIX C · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:00 am Post subject:

DEAR FRIEND;
VALVE SPRINGS SOME TIMES ARE LIKE MOUTHPIECES. FOR MAORE THANT 6 MONTHE I WAS LOOKING FOR VALVE SPRINGS FOR MY BENGES AND IN THE HUNT I TEST KANSTUL, SCHILKE BACH NAD BLESING. KANSTUL ONES ARE DIFERENT TO BENGES BUT WORK FAST, SOME HARDER UNTIL THEY COME SOME SMOOTH, BACH ONES ARE LARGER ,SCHILKES CHANGE THE VALVE ALIGNMENT OF TRUMPET,STAINLESS STEEL ARE VERY HARD BUT VERY RESPONSIVE. THE BEST I HAVE TEST ARE FROM BLESSING TRUMPETS. WITH SOME JOB ARE SMOOHTER ALMOST A OLD MODEL KING SILVER FLAIR.
THANKS
_________________
God's Peace be with all you!!!!!!!!
Kanstul Chicago 1001
GR65M
Benge 3X+
Benge 3 Flugelhorn
Schilke 14F4
I use my Personal Blend of Valve Oil

MoonBoy · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:10 am Post subject:

Caps lock key is above the shift key, it's a very valuable tool in this modern world. I suggest you give it a try. Netiquette says all caps = rude yelling.
_________________
Chris
1948 Olds Ambassador
Bach 5C

drunkiq · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:54 am Post subject:

the ones from osmun are way slower than the stock schilkes, but they are cheap and you can try whatever fits. I can tell you that my schilke vavles are just a tad faster and way smoother than my getzen ones... I have yet to play a horn equal to it in this catorgory...

-marc

Schilkeguy · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 1:47 pm Post subject:

Amen to the Schilke valves. I have never had mine stick and they are fast and smooth.
_________________
Trumpets: Schilke B5, Schilke CX4L, Old style Selmer Paris Picc
Mouthpieces: GR65L, 65**** lead, B&S 7E picc
Age: 18

HMHustead · Regular Member Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Posts: 73

Thats a lot of horns for an 18 year old...way to go!

MaynardProdigy · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 8:47 am Post subject:

My goal is to have 26 horns at the age of 26.

_________________

Silver/Gold Bach Stad 43
81' MF ST-302
51' Olds Super (LA)
631 Yamaha Flugel
***Working on***
Yamaha Xeno
Martin Committee

MoonBoy · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 9:50 am Post subject:

Why?
_________________
Chris
1948 Olds Ambassador
Bach 5C

ARB · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject:

I think the valve springs in my Olds Recording are worn out; the valves hit the felt pretty hard with very little resistance. Where can I get new springs that will work on my good old buddy?
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'

00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C

"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing"

maynard-46 · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:14 pm Post subject:

Felix C,
How can a valve spring (Schilke) ...inside a valve casing...change a valve alignment. Never heard of that! Now if you said changing valve stems that had different lengths...that I could understand. Just curious.

BW

_________________
Bb TRUMPET - Kanstul "Mariachi"
FLUGELHORN - Kanstul 1525 Cooper bell
PICCOLO TRPT. - '80's Selmer Picc
MOUTHPIECES- Warburton GP #6 Series

[ This Message was edited by: maynard-46 on 2004-01-21 16:19 ]

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject:

And something that is considered very valuable in any world, be it modern or ancient is courtesy and respect-try them, they will take you far. Just a thoughtful suggestion, not meant as a bash.

_FELIX C · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:34 am Post subject:

Hi Again Friends:
First excuse me by the caps letter in upper case. I never will be using bad conduct or language here or in any place. when I talk about the valve aligment if the valve Im refering to the alignment of the piston ports compared to the valve casing ones. When I place Schilke springs in the for example 2 valve when I press the valve and remove the 2 valve slide it doesnt arrive at the exactly level that the 2 ports match and the piston does not down completely.
Thanks and Blessings
_________________
God's Peace be with all you!!!!!!!!
Kanstul Chicago 1001
GR65M
Benge 3X+
Benge 3 Flugelhorn
Schilke 14F4
I use my Personal Blend of Valve Oil

mulligan stew · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1846

ARB--I get Olds springs from Osmun Brass--great action and less than $3 a set!

Martin · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:

maynard and Felix,

I too was wondering how springs could possibly change alignment, but now I see what Felix meant. So Schilke springs were too long for the casings of his trumpet, being compressed to the maximum before the valves are down all the way.

I second the Osmun idea - I bought high speed valve sets for different horns from them, and they were cheap and worked very well. Be sure that you specify what horn you need them for when ordering (see above).
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

maynard-46 · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject:

I've sent AT LEAST six different brand horns to have valve alignments done on them by Wayne Tanabe at The Brass Bow. Kanstul, Bach Yamaha, etc and I ALWAYS have him change the springs out for Schilke springs. He has repeatedly told me that springs DO NOT alter valve alignment. valve buttons,top caps and stems DEFINITELY do. When you depress a valve it can only go down as far as the pad in the top valve cap allows it to. For a spring to change that the valve would have to stop short of the normal down position...that's impossible!! Chances are your valves were out of alignment to begin with!

BW
_________________
TRUMPE: YAMAHA Lacq. "Shew Gen II" / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "TKO" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL.

MaynardProdigy · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject:

MoonBoy,

I was only being sarcastic.

_________________

Custom Bach Stad 43
81' MF ST-302
631 Yamaha Flugel
***Working on***
Yamaha Xeno
Martin Committee
Olds Super (LA)

[ This Message was edited by: MaynardProdigy on 2004-01-22 16:12 ]

Martin · Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:45 am Post subject:

Butch (maynard-46),

it is in fact possible to screw up the valve alignment with the wrong springs.
It happened to me with an 1926 Conn I have. Its spring casings are rather slim. Common barrel-shaped springs (Bach, Kanstul etc.) won´t fit (too wide), so you need cylindrical springs. These can´t be compressed as much as barrel-shaped ones (just squeeze one between your fingers and you´ll see what I mean).
So - if the spring is completely compressed before the valve is all the way down, the valve will be out of alignment when depressed. You´ll notice this immediately as the downstroke will sound and feel different (metal on metal instead of valve button on felt/rubber).
Who knows, maybe Wayne Tanabe had to shorten the Schilke springs for some of your horns, too...
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt