Just world class playing from Doc. In my opinion he is the greatest to ever do it. _________________ "Let's face it, god didn't create us specifically to play the trumpet." - Doc Severinsen
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 1:30 am Post subject:
World Class is correct. I remember that show because that was one of my favorite songs at the time. Doc was the main reason why I sat up late watching Carson and company.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Not only world-class but century-class.
If there has ever been a trumpet player who sounded as good as Doc, I've not heard it. _________________ Craig Mitchell
Joined: 11 Nov 2021 Posts: 30 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:06 am Post subject:
Doc seems to have another gear of resonance in his sound that I haven't heard from anybody else. He's also great at phrasing and shaping lines to make the music exciting. I wish there were more recordings of him playing classical music, such as the Arutunian or Brandt Concertpiece 1; I'd love to hear him play those pieces. _________________ "Let's face it, god didn't create us specifically to play the trumpet." - Doc Severinsen
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2160 Location: Little Elm, TX
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:27 pm Post subject:
Just in case nobody posted it somewhere else (I looked but couldn't find anything on this forum), Doc just turned 96 on July 7. Happy belated birthday, Doc! _________________ Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 3:01 am Post subject:
96, yes, and I believe he is still playing. He has 10 years on me and i hope I am still playing at 96.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet
Doc seems to have another gear of resonance in his sound that I haven't heard from anybody else. He's also great at phrasing and shaping lines to make the music exciting. I wish there were more recordings of him playing classical music, such as the Arutunian or Brandt Concertpiece 1; I'd love to hear him play those pieces.
In Clark Terry's book he talks about Doc's audition with the Charlie Barnet band - Doc started out playing Hora Staccato to demonstrate his technical chops. Per Clark Charlie said to those next to him "F*** that, can he play blues?" Lol.
Apparently Doc played blues good enough to make it onto the band.
I've heard Doc mention playing classical a few times in various interviews - he said while he could play it, there were others who specialized in it. I also heard him say words pretty close to "playing hot licks at 2am isn't really conducive to developing classical playing". What I took away from his various comments is that since he wasn't focused on constantly grooving his stroke in that arena he didn't feel like his renditions would compare well to performances by classical specialists.
On his "Trumpet Spectacular" album he plays some pieces in the classical realm - Napoli con variazioni, Flight of the BB, the Staigers Carnival of Venice, Clarke's Trumpet Voluntary and various adaptations of classical and operatic melodies custom-tailored for him. IMO he does a great job on them but I'm sure there's a reason he never put out a Haydn, Hummel, Mozart album etc. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 131 Location: Connecticut
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2023 6:26 pm Post subject:
Gonya wrote:
Doc seems to have another gear of resonance in his sound that I haven't heard from anybody else. He's also great at phrasing and shaping lines to make the music exciting. I wish there were more recordings of him playing classical music, such as the Arutunian or Brandt Concertpiece 1; I'd love to hear him play those pieces.
So, it ain't classical per se, and it ain't jazz either, but when we Brass Chatted Doc he named this piece as a contender for the hardest thing he ever played, and I bet this is new content to a lot of people here. Claude T. Smith wrote it for him, and there are some cool liner notes in the description. For my part, given this recording I can pretty easily imagine what his Arutunian rendition might sound like, and I would've loved to hear that too. Whatever genre you think this piece falls into, I agree with the above--"he's great at phrasing and shaping lines to make the music exciting"--it's SO obvious to hear here. Enjoy--
During my undergrad, I took a History of Jazz (single-semester) course as an elective. Toward the end of the semester, the professor asked for us to bring recordings to play of any great jazz players. Because I'd heard Doc improvise to a certain extent on recordings (not like a 9-minute solo, but at least on chorus passages or loop-repeated chord progressions), I thought of him as being in the jazz realm of players. I had the prof cue up, "A Song for You," from the LP "Doc Severinsen's Closet"...
It seems to me that he does some definite ad lib on this, which I put in the jazz category in my mind. But as soon as Doc finished his last note (Eb over DHC!!), the prof said, "Well, that's not jazz but 'commercial music.'" From that point, I've used three main categories to pigeonhole players: classical, jazz, and commercial. Raphael Mendez was very possibly the first big name in the commercial realm. I guess we could form another category with "cornet solos," in which case, Herbert L. Clarke would be top-named. And for that manner, we could make further distinctions between classical and orchestral. And then we have greats like Harry James, who spun out of the Big Band era of the 1930s, and his playing might have that category title, although he seemed to fill a "commercial" spotlight, too, at the time, so maybe he would be the first trumpeter to fill the "commercial category." Or do we use "Big Band" as another category?! IOW, do we limit "jazz" to those who improvise in extended manner only in the settings in which we normally recognize as such: small combo, big band, other??
Folk music has its own history, and some use it as the root to any music form outside of formal classical. Some see the history as: folk>ragtime>jazz. If that's the case, then "folk music" is a basis for many genres and formal musical art forms, no?
For those who read through all of this, how did you like that little rabbit hole?! Hahahaha!!!
Circling back to Doc Severinsen, I guess I'd refer to him as one of the greatest trumpet players ever, who mainly falls into the "commercial trumpet soloist" category. Regardless, what an inspiration!
I think one of the things that makes Doc so amazing,is he practiced his butt off, and is a natural on the instrument; We all know very good players who got their
chops together, whether as Legit players, Lead players, soloists,etc.,and then played out their careers doing those things; Seems to me that Doc did not stop there, and was and probably is still working on the things that didnt come as easily; For example, he had great hi chops, and could have easily been a Hi note success ,but then we hear him playing concertos of every variety, playing gorgous ballads ,Great lead playing,Very nice jazz solos in the swing tradition, and well, cant think of anything left!
I remember checking him out on the Carson show, and remember him taking that big breath before he played, no matter if it was a simple mid range melody, or a Mac Park type thing.And that was before pro tools,or fixing it in the mix, or anything..That was live, kids! Cant really recall him missing anything..Yes one of the greats and a huge inspiration!
And a funny bit on his mouthpiece "Freak outs"
Years ago when John Stork had his shop in the City,
I called there one day to see about dropping by,and
John picked up the phone sounding a little out of breath,
and said, not today, Docs here!
Going there the next day, John said Doc tried mouthpieces out
from 10AM till 3 and he had to close down to "regular" costumers
as it was pretty intense..Wish I could have been the fly on THAT wall!
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 7:32 am Post subject: Photo of Doc
Just for historical reasons, the photo showing Doc with his gold Destino after the second stab of the coda was taken by me. It was the so-called last big band tour in 2008 and I took it from the trumpet section. He used it for many years for PR and initially didn't want it shown as he thought his nose was too big. My wife did a bit of Photoshop without telling him and he thought it was great. At the end of that three week tour I finally got him to sit down for a portrait session in Davenport, Iowa. He had been resisting this for the entire tour after asking me to bring all my photo gear with me on the tour saying his eyes were puffy looking. I somewhat had to force him to sit down for the shoot knowing he had all his other clothes sent out already for the photos. The photos were well received by him and used for PR many years. His favorite was of him sitting down with his Levi jacket on which got used on the Brass Journal cover later on.
During my undergrad, I took a History of Jazz (single-semester) course as an elective. Toward the end of the semester, the professor asked for us to bring recordings to play of any great jazz players. Because I'd heard Doc improvise to a certain extent on recordings (not like a 9-minute solo, but at least on chorus passages or loop-repeated chord progressions), I thought of him as being in the jazz realm of players. I had the prof cue up, "A Song for You," from the LP "Doc Severinsen's Closet"...
It seems to me that he does some definite ad lib on this, which I put in the jazz category in my mind. But as soon as Doc finished his last note (Eb over DHC!!), the prof said, "Well, that's not jazz but 'commercial music.'"
Definitely not the example of Doc's playing that I'd use as an example of jazz. Some good examples of Doc doing straight-up jazz probably weren't readily accessible at the time - the first thing that comes to mind is his playing with Billy Taylor on "The Subject Is Jazz" from 1958. We only have access to them now because fortunately they were taped and someone was good enough to upload them on Youtube. When they originally aired the only way someone at home could have captured them would have been with audio recording - no such thing as consumer video back then.
During my undergrad, I took a History of Jazz (single-semester) course as an elective. Toward the end of the semester, the professor asked for us to bring recordings to play of any great jazz players. Because I'd heard Doc improvise to a certain extent on recordings (not like a 9-minute solo, but at least on chorus passages or loop-repeated chord progressions), I thought of him as being in the jazz realm of players. I had the prof cue up, "A Song for You," from the LP "Doc Severinsen's Closet"...
I remember back in 1972/1973 I heard Doc perform this same arrangement of "A Song For You" live at Lake Tahoe. He played basically the same cadenza at the end. At Lake Tahoe's altitude, performing live, he nailed the Eb above double C.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 10:03 am Post subject:
Well. "labels". Huh. I am not big on pigeonholing people or styles because there are so many ambiguous examples. The boundaries get crossed often.
Having said that, I have never considered Doc as a pure Jazz Player. Freddie Hubbard, Lee Morgan - these are "Jazz Players". Doc's improvisations are, to me, more Arban than Omnibook.
A good example of this is the "A Song for You" (above example). I heard Doc and the Tonight Show Band play it live and Doc gave me goosebumps. He improvised somewhat. He played the melody beautifully. It was VERY moving.
So - if you ask me. "Name some Jazz trumpet players", my knee-jerk reaction is to say, "Bix, Miles, Don Cherry, Tom Herrel". If you ask me who's one of the best over-all popular trumpet players - Doc Severinson.
Labels can be helpful in organizing similar traits, but they should not be taken as sacrosanct. (Hear that, Wynton?) _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
During my undergrad, I took a History of Jazz (single-semester) course as an elective. Toward the end of the semester, the professor asked for us to bring recordings to play of any great jazz players. Because I'd heard Doc improvise to a certain extent on recordings (not like a 9-minute solo, but at least on chorus passages or loop-repeated chord progressions), I thought of him as being in the jazz realm of players. I had the prof cue up, "A Song for You," from the LP "Doc Severinsen's Closet"...
It seems to me that he does some definite ad lib on this, which I put in the jazz category in my mind. But as soon as Doc finished his last note (Eb over DHC!!), the prof said, "Well, that's not jazz but 'commercial music.'"
Definitely not the example of Doc's playing that I'd use as an example of jazz. Some good examples of Doc doing straight-up jazz probably weren't readily accessible at the time - the first thing that comes to mind are his playing with Billy Taylor on "The Subject Is Jazz" from 1958. We only have access to them now because fortunately they were taped and someone was good enough to upload them on Youtube. When they originally aired the only way someone at home could have captured them would have been with audio recording - no such thing as consumer video back then.
Going to jump in on this regarding Doc's jazz playing. I posted something similar years back.
When I was a college student, I spent a week at a summer jazz camp on the campus of Quinnipiac U. Saxophonist Arnie Lawrence was one of the clinicians along with Danny Stiles.
Arnie played on the Tonight Show Band when it was in New York. He mentioned that Doc was not really a jazz player. His jazz solos were written out for him. I guess he would memorize them and embellish a phrase here and there.
I'd point out Arnie wasn't trying to diss Doc. It was more a statement of fact from someone who was on the band for a number of years.
I believe Tony Scodwell may have chimed in a few years back when I posted this to back up what I posted.
I fell into a conversation with a well known trumpeter/teacher and mentioned this. He said he had always heard the same thing. He also said you had to have some serious skills to play these solos.
Last time I saw Doc was about 11 years ago with the San Miguel 5. He was 85. He had lost a little bit of his upper register, no more E Flats over Double C.I found his soloing to be more passionate, interesting and spontaneous.
Joined: 18 Jun 2023 Posts: 32 Location: Southern US
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:56 pm Post subject:
Doc IMO is the greatest ever. I know that not everyone shares that opinion, but at the very least, it's fair to say that he's the most versatile ever, and to be versatile on this instrument is the most difficult thing to do, ergot, he qualifies as the greatest.
Some people might say that he couldn't play jazz like Miles or Dizzy....
Doc originally aspired to be a studio player, thus he wanted to be versatile, and that, he was. I believe that if Doc wanted to specialize, he could have been the very best at what every specialty he chose. I've heard him play some pretty righteous jazz stuff in his early days, and I'm convinced that he could have been the greatest jazz player if that's what he set out to do.
Doc made some very flattering comments about some of his contemporaries, for instance, he was quoted (according to some) as saying that Harry James was the greatest. He also said that Maynard could have been great at whatever style of playing he chose. I'm sure Doc was just being gracious - after all, he's not going to be like Muhammad Ali and say "I'm the greatest of all times!" Any of us who have studied the way Maynard played, which was later termed by Lynn Nicholson as the "Maynard Ferguson Protocol," it's quite obvious that the MF Protocol setup, unfurling the chops into a V-cup mouthpiece that holds the chops is not very conducive to the kind of sound, control, and articulation required to be as versatile a player as Doc.
All of these guys were destined to become what they became. Doc eventually became the leader of the Tonight Show Band and to go from the section to leading the band is not a transition that just anyone can make. He was the perfect guy for that job, to lead the band and be out front as a soloist interpreting that music in a way that no one else could. He was petrified of being a bandleader because just as in other walks of life, as soon as you're put in charge of the performance of other people, you have a big bulls-eye on your back. But he handled it well. I've never heard stories about him being a stinker as a leader, as we often hear about Buddy Rich.
It's also very admirable that Doc kept so busy outside of his Tonight Show gig. It would have been very easy to get comfortable just doing the show, but Doc kept practicing the horn to maintain a technical level that went well beyond what was required to play on the Tonight Show, and he went around touring to play with symphony "pops" orchestras and school symphonic bands to put all of that practice to use.
For Doc to be playing first chair in the high school band and winning competitions at 7 years of age is pretty amazing and he just kept his upward ascent going like a skyrocket ever since. Hearing some of the stuff he played with the Ted Fio Rito band at age 17 was amazing, and the way he played some of that stuff by Floyd Werle is mind blowing. The fact that Doc was such a showman on the Tonight Show has caused a lot of people to think of him more as a showman, and that's a shame because that was just the icing on the cake. It's great that Doc was willing to dress up and wear all of those flashy outfits because the upside of that is that it helped him and the band get noticed more on the show, which is good for the public's appreciation of the band and its style of music. I remember that he used to be named as the Bandleader and dubbed with the "best-dressed" award every year in the Playboy Magazine Reader's polls.
I never like to get too involved in player comparisons. It's kind of pointless for people to argue about such things and it often gets very subjective; however, it's human nature to want to crown one person king. Doc has been doing it like no one else can do it for longer than anyone else has ever done it. From a totally objective standpoint with all things considered, there's only one clear choice as the best ever, and it's Doc.
Last edited by Weekend Warrior on Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2160 Location: Little Elm, TX
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:13 pm Post subject:
peanuts56 wrote:
Going to jump in on this regarding Doc's jazz playing. I posted something similar years back.
When I was a college student, I spent a week at a summer jazz camp on the campus of Quinnipiac U. Saxophonist Arnie Lawrence was one of the clinicians along with Danny Stiles.
Arnie played on the Tonight Show Band when it was in New York. He mentioned that Doc was not really a jazz player. His jazz solos were written out for him. I guess he would memorize them and embellish a phrase here and there.
I'd point out Arnie wasn't trying to diss Doc. It was more a statement of fact from someone who was on the band for a number of years.
I believe Tony Scodwell may have chimed in a few years back when I posted this to back up what I posted.
I fell into a conversation with a well known trumpeter/teacher and mentioned this. He said he had always heard the same thing. He also said you had to have some serious skills to play these solos.
Last time I saw Doc was about 11 years ago with the San Miguel 5. He was 85. He had lost a little bit of his upper register, no more E Flats over Double C.I found his soloing to be more passionate, interesting and spontaneous.
I'll share a story, mind you it's second hand from Neil Slater, who was the director of jazz studies at UNT for many years. He told us about a time back in the 1950s, when he was living in New York. Neil was hanging out in a bar where a lot of the studio cats hung out and Doc came in and was really angry. He had just done a session where his part had some jazz changes on it and he'd had to pass it down to another player in the section and it embarrassed him no end.
No intention of belittling Doc's abilities, though. Knowing his practice ethic, I think he probably worked very hard on his improv from that point on, and I love every solo he recorded, and whether it was improvised or written, it doesn't matter to me. His recordings, especially the ones he did for Command back in the late 50's early 60's contain some phenomenal solos. Granted, these were largely elevator music tracks and Doc was no Freddie Hubbard, but as a kid I spent hours and hours trying to copy licks from those solos because they were so good. He's still my favorite trumpet player of all time. Fantastic tone, incredible control, and flawless technique. _________________ Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
