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Druyff
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 Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:47 am Post subject: I accidentally blasted out a double C |
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I accidentally blasted out a very loud double C while toying with my trumpet and my 10.5C. That's like an octave beyond my normal range, not counting accidental squeaks every now and then. After that I tried to repeat it but I'm trying too hard I think. 
It felt really easy when it popped out, but if I try it consciously itś not easy at all. 
How does one convince one's muscle memory that it's not a Herculean effort, BRACE FOR IMPACT! HULK SMASH! but just the right lip setting and some coordination or something...
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80ties Holton T101 Symphony (Silverplate)
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JonathanM
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Great post!
Not sure how to calm the lip and pump out Double High C's consistently, but it you figure it out - do let us know. 
It's still thrilling to do it every now and then. It's kind of like an eagle in golf... It keeps us coming back for more.
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Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
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Druyff
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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And it was in tune also.. on a Bach mp shocking 
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spitvalve
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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If you've ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, you'll remember that Arthur Dent learned to fly by falling and forgetting to hit the ground. Sometimes I think trumpet playing is a lot like that.
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Expect the few remaining 10.5C mouthpieces listed on marketplace to vanish due to suddenly increased demand. Ones listed after will be listed at a substantially higher price and will bear an "easy double C" advertisement moniker.
Bach might approach you to copy the unique shape of your 10.5C (there is enough variability at Bach so just any 10.5C will not do).
Consider writing a book and opening a remote learning school "Dryuff Double C". |
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Druyff
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| Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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lol.
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:54 am Post subject: Re: I accidentally blasted out a double C |
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| Druyff wrote: | | How does one convince one's muscle memory that it's not a Herculean effort, but just the right lip setting and some coordination or something. |
Repetition and knowing which muscles are a supporting foundation and where to let them be pliable.
I had a solid High C for warm-ups, but my consistent playing range was really about an A above the staff. Then I switched to sax and that called for a different mentality about how to use the embouchure. Psychologically, high notes were easy. I had a different mental approach to high notes.
Decades later, switch back to trumpet but with a different attitude about embouchure. I did not force the embouchure muscles and did not clamp down to the degree that I previously did. And I did not see high notes as (relatively) difficult.
Two approaches helped me over the hump to Double High C. (I would say, I had a practice-room Double High C and a workable E over High C). My two "helpers" were "The Balanced Embouchure" and Maggio's exercises; Balanced Embouchure for, really, just showing me that there really wasn't only one way to use your embouchure. And Maggio's exercises (not his "monkey" embouchure) that kept me moving gradually higher and higher.
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mograph
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that happened to me last year, playing a Benge 7C piece. Loud and strong, double C.
It hasn't happened since, but I'm still trying!
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1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:54 am Post subject: |
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As an intermittent double C player myself like all notes the dub C will come out every time you hit just the right combination of manipulation of all the elements involved - it's more than just the lips, it's *everything* - air, oral cavity, lips at the right position to each other, the right kind of tension, pressure distribution. You've learned it's possible to do, the hard part is learning to make it repeatable on demand.
Unfortunately you don't have a way of "dialing it in" other than through feel. I imagine most people sneak up on it over time. You think you're doing things the same way but if it's not coming out then you're not doing it the same way - the difference might be subtle but it's real.
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Last edited by Robert P on Thu Aug 24, 2023 2:00 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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peanuts56
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 4:57 am Post subject: Re: I accidentally blasted out a double C |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Druyff wrote: | | How does one convince one's muscle memory that it's not a Herculean effort, but just the right lip setting and some coordination or something. |
Repetition and knowing which muscles are a supporting foundation and where to let them be pliable.
I had a solid High C for warm-ups, but my consistent playing range was really about an A above the staff. Then I switched to sax and that called for a different mentality about how to use the embouchure. Psychologically, high notes were easy. I had a different mental approach to high notes.
Decades later, switch back to trumpet but with a different attitude about embouchure. I did not force the embouchure muscles and did not clamp down to the degree that I previously did. And I did not see high notes as (relatively) difficult.
Two approaches helped me over the hump to Double High C. (I would say, I had a practice-room Double High C and a workable E over High C). My two "helpers" were "The Balanced Embouchure" and Maggio's exercises; Balanced Embouchure for, really, just showing me that there really wasn't only one way to use your embouchure. And Maggio's exercises (not his "monkey" embouchure) that kept me moving gradually higher and higher. |
Jeff Smiley's book helped a great deal. A bit of a chin bunch did the trick. I found a sweet spot where everything sounded right. Just a slight roll in or roll out to change registers. I don't use the tongue on the lips he advocates. I use the anchored tongue on my bottom lip and articulate off my top lip and teeth. I guess it's an older version of what Callet taught. It works for me.
I wish I knew this in my younger days when I was practicing and playing regularly.
Even though I don't really play these days I pick up my Yamaha once in a while. I can still play a decent A Flat over high C without a lot of motion or strain when changing registers.
I don't think Jeff gets the credit he deserves. |
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:43 am Post subject: |
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"I don't use the tongue on the lips he advocates."
I haven't read his book in a while, but my carry-away was that tonguing between the teeth was an exercise for making you sensitive to keeping enough of a gap between your lips to let the air flow freely. An exercise, not a way of playing.
Quoting Andy Bumatai (Peanuts will know), "No quote me. I might be wrong". 
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Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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peanuts56
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | "I don't use the tongue on the lips he advocates."
I haven't read his book in a while, but my carry-away was that tonguing between the teeth was an exercise for making you sensitive to keeping enough of a gap between your lips to let the air flow freely. An exercise, not a way of playing.
Quoting Andy Bumatai (Peanuts will know), "No quote me. I might be wrong". |
My kama'aina bride still talks about All In The Ohana!
I'm more of a Rap Replinger guy.
Johnny Okole, he's your okole, he's my okole!!!! |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| spitvalve wrote: | | If you've ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, you'll remember that Arthur Dent learned to fly by falling and forgetting to hit the ground. Sometimes I think trumpet playing is a lot like that. |
Good to know that there are other hoopy froods here.
But seriously, was that in HGG or the Dirk Gently Holistic Detective Agency books?
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Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
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spitvalve
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | spitvalve wrote: | | If you've ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, you'll remember that Arthur Dent learned to fly by falling and forgetting to hit the ground. Sometimes I think trumpet playing is a lot like that. |
Good to know that there are other hoopy froods here.
But seriously, was that in HGG or the Dirk Gently Holistic Detective Agency books? |
It was in HGG vol 3, Life, the Universe and Everything, I think.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| spitvalve wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | | spitvalve wrote: | | If you've ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, you'll remember that Arthur Dent learned to fly by falling and forgetting to hit the ground. Sometimes I think trumpet playing is a lot like that. |
Good to know that there are other hoopy froods here.
But seriously, was that in HGG or the Dirk Gently Holistic Detective Agency books? |
It was in HGG vol 3, Life, the Universe and Everything, I think. |
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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mograph
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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It happened again for me, this time on the Curry 3C, and I think I know why.
- more time on the P.E.T.E. (hey, it works for me)
- a bit of a curl-back at the center the lips
- less pressure mouthpiece-to-face
- but more air just shoved through the damn thing, from the core.
- everything was light, tiny, whistly ... but more air.
... and I can pre-hear and aim for the pitch a bit more easily.
One might ask what happens when you're unsuccessful? Does it get all stuffed up? Then less pressure might be needed.
_________________
1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mograph wrote: | It happened again for me, this time on the Curry 3C, and I think I know why.
- more time on the P.E.T.E. (hey, it works for me)
- a bit of a curl-back at the center the lips
- less pressure mouthpiece-to-face
- but more air just shoved through the damn thing, from the core.
- everything was light, tiny, whistly ... but more air.
... and I can pre-hear and aim for the pitch a bit more easily.
One might ask what happens when you're unsuccessful? Does it get all stuffed up? Then less pressure might be needed. |
There's no one answer - something about your setup isn't where it needs to be - it *all* has to be in place. You can hit the edge of the bullseye and get a weak dub C, the closer you get to the center the more robust it will be. You can huff and strain and turn 7 shades of purple and it's not going to happen if things aren't aligned right. If everything is in place you need to blow for sure but it will happen without having to risk rupturing something.
_________________
Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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acritzer
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| spitvalve wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | | spitvalve wrote: | | If you've ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, you'll remember that Arthur Dent learned to fly by falling and forgetting to hit the ground. Sometimes I think trumpet playing is a lot like that. |
Good to know that there are other hoopy froods here.
But seriously, was that in HGG or the Dirk Gently Holistic Detective Agency books? |
It was in HGG vol 3, Life, the Universe and Everything, I think. |
I might need to re-read these now! Fun memories. |
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spitvalve
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| acritzer wrote: | | spitvalve wrote: | | cheiden wrote: | | spitvalve wrote: | | If you've ever read The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy series, you'll remember that Arthur Dent learned to fly by falling and forgetting to hit the ground. Sometimes I think trumpet playing is a lot like that. |
Good to know that there are other hoopy froods here.
But seriously, was that in HGG or the Dirk Gently Holistic Detective Agency books? |
It was in HGG vol 3, Life, the Universe and Everything, I think. |
I might need to re-read these now! Fun memories. |
Just be sure you know where your towel is.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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mograph
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Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | mograph wrote: | It happened again for me, this time on the Curry 3C, and I think I know why.
- more time on the P.E.T.E. (hey, it works for me)
- a bit of a curl-back at the center the lips
- less pressure mouthpiece-to-face
- but more air just shoved through the damn thing, from the core.
- everything was light, tiny, whistly ... but more air.
... and I can pre-hear and aim for the pitch a bit more easily.
One might ask what happens when you're unsuccessful? Does it get all stuffed up? Then less pressure might be needed. |
There's no one answer - something about your setup isn't where it needs to be - it *all* has to be in place. You can hit the edge of the bullseye and get a weak dub C, the closer you get to the center the more robust it will be. You can huff and strain and turn 7 shades of purple and it's not going to happen if things aren't aligned right. If everything is in place you need to blow for sure but it will happen without having to risk rupturing something. |
Oh yeah, it's all gotta work together. I guess my point to the OP (who is not me) is that when the good note doesn't happen, look at what does happen as a clue to what's missing, or not optimal.
_________________
1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music |
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