Performing Brahms "Variations" 2nd Part on C Tpt

trumpeterswain

Our orchestra has two Ganter C rotary trumpets. Our next concert includes Brahms Variations on a Theme by Haydn, Op. 56a.

Normally, Brahms plays beautifully on these rotaries, but this piece is scored for two trumpets in Bb, and the most important finale passages include low G's (concert low F's) in the 2nd trumpet part. This is below the range of the Ganter C Rotary and the tuning slide and 3rd valve slides cannot be extended sufficiently to retune in Bb or extend the low range to F. It would diminish the performance by playing those notes an octave up and certainly contrary to the composer's intentions.

Is there any solution other than playing the 2nd part on a Bb trumpet?

Thanks for your input.

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

I suggest the following short of borrowing a rotary Bb tpt.

I have seen this on piston tpts, but it seems that maybe could be done on a Ganter C:

Have a modification done with a separate 3rd slide that has a trigger to another rotary valve, allowing additional tubing to hit those notes....sort of like the Yamaha YTR-9825 piccolo:

https://www.dillonmusic.com/yamaha-custom-piccolo-bb-a-trumpet-ytr-9825/

It would take some creativity on positioning the saddle for the lever, which would depend on placement of your left hand fingers. Maybe you place your index and middle finger on top of the bell and have the ring finger in the "hook/brace" between bell and (what I'd call the) upper outer tuning slide leg. Perhaps then the flange for the saddle could be soldered to the adjacent nickel collar coming out of the 3rd valve. Here's the thing, though, you may go through a learning curve with using it and yet avoiding the depressing of the left thumb-actuated 3rd slide extender. I've found it a challenge with horns with a 3rd slide rotary option in not doing a "squeezing" action with my left hand when operating that lever. It seems that it's really hard to avoid...at first...but it's something I've been able to adjust in approach over time.

Another option in all of this is to have the con-rod (connection rod, aka linkage) to the 3rd slide with a further modification, and that is to have it extended further to the main tuning slide (aka "pitchfinder"). This involves lapping the tuning slide, which I've had done on many horns, mainly piston, yes, but also rotary. I have yet to tell a discernible difference in blow or playability when doing this, but there are many who will argue that point. This takes even more of a learning curve but can be done. It would limit the 3rd valve action only to the new rotary valve setup on that slide and keep the mechanics isolated, so to speak.

Enough with the musings. Hope you figure what is best for you!

dstpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1286

Oh, one other thing: You might consider having the actual length of the tubing for that additional 3rd slide area to be a little less than what a brass tech might suggest. You can always pull the slide a little, but you can't shorten it in case you're playing on a deep mpc and the pitch is sitting a little low. Nothing is more frustrating to me than having to lip up notes like that.

Gabrieli · Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 10:45 am Post subject:

Surely the easy solution in this case is simply to pull out the main tuning slide a semitone and transpose - playing the written c'' g' and c' with second valve and the low written g with 123. Obviously you will also have to adjust the valve slides but I don’t think it is any big deal. You only need low g in the last section I think.

bagmangood · Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2023 11:59 am Post subject:

Can you possibly pull out the 3rd slide a semitone (Arban suggests this for certain passages) and play the low written G as 123?

Anything that normally uses the 3rd valve would have to be adjusted appropriate (23 -> 3, 13 -> 23, etc.) but with Brahms I'd imagine there wouldn't be many (such that you could probably set the 3rd and forget it)
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More than one trumpet
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Gabrieli · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 5:25 am Post subject:

bagmangood · Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 7:14 am Post subject:

gs329 · New Member Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 8

Try swapping the 1st and 2nd slides. This will get you an extra half step. I've used this for the low F in the opening of Brahms 3, and then swapped them back during extended rests.

Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888

Pull the out the main tuning slide all the way out and the first slide as well. If that does the trick, just push them back in when your done. PS,it won't make any difference if you play the Fs up an octave. Don't mention it to the conductor, otherwise you are asking for trouble. He won't hear any difference.