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bgosvig
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Joined: 10 Dec 2021
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Location: Fairfield, Iowa
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 Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:31 pm Post subject: Bach 190M37X - Reviews? |
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Hi All:
I'm just wondering if anyone has had an opportunity to try Bach's just-released 190M37X trumpet? If so, what are your thoughts?
I recently acquired Bach's LT1901B commercial horn, which I love. I wish I'd bought this horn years ago, as the superb responsiveness and rich sound (bronze bell) is the perfect combination for 69 year-old comeback player. So easy to play and the sound is sumptuous.
However, I also desire a 2nd instrument for variety, and have been looking at Bach's 190M37X horn. It's apparently also a super-responsive instrument, featuring a .456 medium bore, which Bach claims plays like a ML due to lightweight nickel-silver inner slides, a true French bead on the bell, and a host of other features, listed here...
https://www.bachbrass.com/instruments/trumpets/professional/190m37x
Currently, our local stores don't have one of these in stock. I'm just curious if anyone on this forum may have taken one for a spin?
I'm also intrigued by the LR19043B design, which features a lightweight in the body, but with with a standard weight bronze bell (that bronze tends to mesmerize my eyes and ears...sooo pretty). This one is targeted to Mariachi players, but is said to accommodate a wide range of styles.
Thanks for any input on this.
Regards, - Ben
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Ben Gosvig
Bach 190-1B Commercial
Bach 190-43 Centennial Edition
Yamaha Xeno II - YTR-8335 |
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ravel
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd probably buy one sight unseen but I guess Bach isn't making them nobody has them to sell.... |
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bgosvig
Regular Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2021
Posts: 83
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ravel wrote: | | I'd probably buy one sight unseen but I guess Bach isn't making them nobody has them to sell.... |
You may be correct. I don't know of anyone who's seen or played the new line-up of 190's. I've no doubt they're in the pipeline.
That said, there's probably some Bach-sponsored artists on this forum than may have had early access. I'd be most interested in whatever impressions any of those folks may have to offer.
The description that Bach provides on this 190M37X checks a lot of boxes for me.
I previously played a number of lightweight horns and always found them responsive, but flighty - lacking a solid core. The 190-1B Commercial is the first lightweight I've tried that feels solid, yet still offers a response that supports easy range and endurance. But, it's a big sound.
The 190M37X is reputed to offer similar ease and response, but with a more compact and focused sound. In some situations, that focused output may be more suitable than the broad, soaring output provided by my 190-1B.
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Ben Gosvig
Bach 190-1B Commercial
Bach 190-43 Centennial Edition
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Master Jabroni
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Joined: 29 Dec 2014
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Location: World wide
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'd love to try a few of these new Bach's. I've called a few dealers all who say they have them on order with no idea when they will come in.
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chef8489
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think Andy Lott might have been playing on one recently, but might have been mistaken. Maybe he will jump in here.
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Current horns
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1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
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bgosvig
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Joined: 10 Dec 2021
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Location: Fairfield, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| chef8489 wrote: | | I think Andy Lott might have been playing on one recently, but might have been mistaken. Maybe he will jump in here. |
Hi Chef:
I noticed in your signature, you list a 2023 19072G/43 pipe with 1st Trigger.
Bach currently has a 19072X listed, also with a 43 pipe, but no trigger.
I'm guessing these are different models, or did you have the trigger added as an option?
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Ben Gosvig
Bach 190-1B Commercial
Bach 190-43 Centennial Edition
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| bgosvig wrote: | | chef8489 wrote: | | I think Andy Lott might have been playing on one recently, but might have been mistaken. Maybe he will jump in here. |
Hi Chef:
I noticed in your signature, you list a 2023 19072G/43 pipe with 1st Trigger.
Bach currently has a 19072X listed, also with a 43 pipe, but no trigger.
I'm guessing these are different models, or did you have the trigger added as an option? |
My horn was a custom from the factory. Worked with Andy to get it made. It has a 72 gold brass side seam bell, 3rd slide water key and reverse slide stop, 43 leadpipe and 1st trigger. It's an amazing horn and I posted pics in my thread https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157778&highlight=
As far as sound and playing goes, my horn would be closer to a 19072v than a 19072x. I'm even contemplating sending it back and getting a second vindabona slide fitted so I have that option as well.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Last edited by chef8489 on Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yourbrass
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Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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.456" is a new bore size for Bach, as far as I know. It's dead center between M and ML. Their description of the bell is interesting as well. I t seems as if they are seeking to reproduce the bell of the early 50's that Bach was making.
I have a Bach from that era, with the type of bell described. It plays great, and I'm in the process of tweaking it in restoration.
Please post if you get the horn and your impressions.
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bgosvig
Regular Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2021
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Location: Fairfield, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| chef8489 wrote: | | bgosvig wrote: | | chef8489 wrote: | | I think Andy Lott might have been playing on one recently, but might have been mistaken. Maybe he will jump in here. |
Hi Chef:
I noticed in your signature, you list a 2023 19072G/43 pipe with 1st Trigger.
Bach currently has a 19072X listed, also with a 43 pipe, but no trigger.
I'm guessing these are different models, or did you have the trigger added as an option? |
My horn was a custom from the factory. Worked with Andy to get it made. It has a 72 gold brass side seam bell, 3rd slide water key and reverse slide stop, 43 leadpipe and 1st trigger. It's an amazing horn and I posted pics in my thread https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157778&highlight=
As far as sound and playing goes, my horn would be closer to a 19072v than a 19072x. I'm even contemplating sending it back and getting a second vindabona slide fitted so I have that option as well. |
WOW!! That is one stunning instrument. Gorgeous!! That bell looks like it's bronze? Love the color. It's amazing that a firm as big as Bach will allow folks to Build-A-Bach to get exactly what they want.
What an incredibly cool trumpet. Congrats!!
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Ben Gosvig
Bach 190-1B Commercial
Bach 190-43 Centennial Edition
Yamaha Xeno II - YTR-8335 |
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| bgosvig wrote: | | chef8489 wrote: | | bgosvig wrote: | | chef8489 wrote: | | I think Andy Lott might have been playing on one recently, but might have been mistaken. Maybe he will jump in here. |
Hi Chef:
I noticed in your signature, you list a 2023 19072G/43 pipe with 1st Trigger.
Bach currently has a 19072X listed, also with a 43 pipe, but no trigger.
I'm guessing these are different models, or did you have the trigger added as an option? |
My horn was a custom from the factory. Worked with Andy to get it made. It has a 72 gold brass side seam bell, 3rd slide water key and reverse slide stop, 43 leadpipe and 1st trigger. It's an amazing horn and I posted pics in my thread https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157778&highlight=
As far as sound and playing goes, my horn would be closer to a 19072v than a 19072x. I'm even contemplating sending it back and getting a second vindabona slide fitted so I have that option as well. |
WOW!! That is one stunning instrument. Gorgeous!! That bell looks like it's bronze? Love the color. It's amazing that a firm as big as Bach will allow folks to Build-A-Bach to get exactly what they want.
What an incredibly cool trumpet. Congrats!! |
I didn't get it through Build-a-bach. It was through Andy Lott. He was the High Brass manager at Bach and now is still consulting and designing horns for Bach.He currently works with Bach artists on their horns and I believe will work with a limited number of people if they need a custom horn from Bach. He was amazing to deal with and I am looking forward to working with him again on a cornet project and hopefully a c trumpet.
The 72 bell on my horn us a gold brass bell and not bronze. I have been contemplating putting a bronze bell on the cornet, but I have been advised gold brass would probably give me the sound I am looking for.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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bgosvig
Regular Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2021
Posts: 83
Location: Fairfield, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| yourbrass wrote: | .456" is a new bore size for Bach, as far as I know. It's dead center between M and ML. Their description of the bell is interesting as well. I t seems as if they are seeking to reproduce the bell of the early 50's that Bach was making.
I have a Bach from that era, with the type of bell described. It plays great, and I'm in the process of tweaking it in restoration.
Please post if you get the horn and your impressions. |
Yes, there's nothing new under the sun. Bach is clearly rolling out a broad array of new 190 horns based upon the design and construction techniques of yesteryear. It makes sense. Those Mt. Vernon Bach's in good condition command big dollars on eBay. The value of what Vincent Bach created in those days endures.
I have a 1966 Strad that's essentially made like today's 190-37's. It has the responsiveness, sonorous tone, and core of the 190's, at least.
Some may feel this corporate stroll down memory lane is a cynical money grab, which it surly is. Yet, I'm heartened that Bach recognizes the greatness of their heritage, and is making an effort to restore the brilliance of Vincent's original vision.
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Ben Gosvig
Bach 190-1B Commercial
Bach 190-43 Centennial Edition
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 858
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| bgosvig wrote: | | yourbrass wrote: | .456" is a new bore size for Bach, as far as I know. It's dead center between M and ML. Their description of the bell is interesting as well. I t seems as if they are seeking to reproduce the bell of the early 50's that Bach was making.
I have a Bach from that era, with the type of bell described. It plays great, and I'm in the process of tweaking it in restoration.
Please post if you get the horn and your impressions. |
Yes, there's nothing new under the sun. Bach is clearly rolling out a broad array of new 190 horns based upon the design and construction techniques of yesteryear. It makes sense. Those Mt. Vernon Bach's in good condition command big dollars on eBay. The value of what Vincent Bach created in those days endures.
I have a 1966 Strad that's essentially made like today's 190-37's. It has the responsiveness, sonorous tone, and core of the 190's, at least.
Some may feel this corporate stroll down memory lane is a cynical money grab, which it surly is. Yet, I'm heartened that Bach recognizes the greatness of their heritage, and is making an effort to restore the brilliance of Vincent's original vision. |
If you knew Andy and Mark you would know what they are doing with Bach and the 190 series is not a money grab. They are truly trying to go back to Vincent's original vision that Conn Selmer got away from. The new 190 horns starting with serial 800,000 are really a step above the last generation 190 and that generation was a step above the 180. The Artisan then the 190 was a huge step in the right direction and the new horns are even more so. For quite some time I got away from Bach and went back to vintage King horns and even played around with S.E. Shires horns. And Conn. I am glad to be back on an amazing Bach trumpet.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I am presently playing one of the new 43s and I have three students who have bought versions of the new 37. All are AMAZING. The 37s are the best 37s I’ve ever played (of any era including Mt. Vernon). My 43 is the best Bb I’ve ever owned and I can play any kind of music I’m asked and sound appropriate and artistic (within my personal limitations). They are in shops, not merely in the hands of artists or in the pipeline. Many dealers may feel compelled to move old inventory before acquiring or pushing these new horns. Contact Andy Lott. He will hook you up!
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Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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chef8489
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Joined: 16 Aug 2011
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Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | | I am presently playing one of the new 43s and I have three students who have bought versions of the new 37. All are AMAZING. The 37s are the best 37s I’ve ever played (of any era including Mt. Vernon). My 43 is the best Bb I’ve ever owned and I can play any kind of music I’m asked and sound appropriate and artistic (within my personal limitations). They are in shops, not merely in the hands of artists or in the pipeline. Many dealers may feel compelled to move old inventory before acquiring or pushing these new horns. Contact Andy Lott. He will hook you up! |
You say new 43 is it a post 800,000 serial number and says corporation on the bell?
If so then yes I agree with your statement.
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Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| chef8489 wrote: | | PH wrote: | | I am presently playing one of the new 43s and I have three students who have bought versions of the new 37. All are AMAZING. The 37s are the best 37s I’ve ever played (of any era including Mt. Vernon). My 43 is the best Bb I’ve ever owned and I can play any kind of music I’m asked and sound appropriate and artistic (within my personal limitations). They are in shops, not merely in the hands of artists or in the pipeline. Many dealers may feel compelled to move old inventory before acquiring or pushing these new horns. Contact Andy Lott. He will hook you up! |
You say new 43 is it a post 800,000 serial number and says corporation on the bell?... |
Yep. 801022
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Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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J.D. Heckathorn
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Joined: 16 Aug 2018
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Bach 190M37X - Reviews? |
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| bgosvig wrote: | Hi All:
I'm also intrigued by the LR19043B design, which features a lightweight in the body, but with with a standard weight bronze bell (that bronze tends to mesmerize my eyes and ears...sooo pretty). This one is targeted to Mariachi players, but is said to accommodate a wide range of styles.
Thanks for any input on this.
Regards, - Ben |
I have a 2017 LR19043B, love the horn but very much disagree with how it was marketed which is a whole ‘nother side of this discussion. Calling it the Mariachi definitely made me wonder if it was too specialized of a design so best to not have marketing that might pigeon hole the horn prematurely. This horn is a monster and reminds of an old callichio with a big bell.
I had the horn blueprinted by James Becker when he was at osmun and an intriguing change was recommended to be made to the horn: having the bell bow rounded. I wonder if this is an aspect (angle of the bend of the crook of the bell) that has been changed from earlier Bach designs.
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:31 am Post subject: |
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We are definitely NOT talking about the Mariachi, Commercial, Artisan, etc. It is my understanding that those horns have all been discontinued. We are talking about the newer version Bachs that are coming out of the factory in the last few months with serial numbers over 800000.
BTW, the new C trumpets are still in development, but I'm told they are getting close.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
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J.D. Heckathorn
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| PH wrote: | We are definitely NOT talking about the Mariachi, Commercial, Artisan, etc. It is my understanding that those horns have all been discontinued. We are talking about the newer version Bachs that are coming out of the factory in the last few months with serial numbers over 800000.
BTW, the new C trumpets are still in development, but I'm told they are getting close. |
Considering OP mentioned the very model in their opening post might make it relevant? Also my last sentence about bell bow roundness got us back into design trajectory. Do you know if bell bow roundness has been a factor with these new Bach horns?
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PH
Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 5860
Location: New Albany, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| J.D. Heckathorn wrote: | | PH wrote: | We are definitely NOT talking about the Mariachi, Commercial, Artisan, etc. It is my understanding that those horns have all been discontinued. We are talking about the newer version Bachs that are coming out of the factory in the last few months with serial numbers over 800000.
BTW, the new C trumpets are still in development, but I'm told they are getting close. |
Considering OP mentioned the very model in their opening post might make it relevant? Also my last sentence about bell bow roundness got us back into design trajectory. Do you know if bell bow roundness has been a factor with these new Bach horns? |
OP said he had one of those old ones and was wondering specifically about two of the newer models.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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J.D. Heckathorn
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| Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Discussions evolve, my friend. We are discussing value of vintage designs and how they’ve changed or stayed the same over the course of Bach’s production. Is my inquiry about bell bow roundness in the current vs vintage design irrelevant?
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