How do I play in the high register without embouchure change

AlexBazinet

I'm in the 10th grade. I've been able to hit a clean double G and up for about a year now but my tone in the middle register suffered. I changed my embouchure to accommodate tone and my upper register has struggled. I can still hit a strong D but getting up to the G or even the E cleanly requires me to change my embouchure to the old way. My main problem is relaxing with the old embouchure it takes less air ,pressure ,and tension but as soon as I shift to the new one the sound gets thin and spitty. The actual change I made in my embouchure was a shift closer to the middle of the mouthpiece going from 80 to 20 top to bottom with the old embouchure to a more even 60 to 40. I also play a monette Unity B2 and an old holton T602

Normally I'd just ask my lesson teacher but he's on break till October and my teacher put these notes in my parts.

abontrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1784

So, what I understand is that you have an old embouchure that sounded bad, and now you sound better but have less range?

The way you play in the high register without embouchure change is to . . . not change the embouchure. If you're saying that you have a tendency to revert back to the old embouchure, then we would need to know why your lesson teacher thought it was best to move your placement. Unless you chose to move your placement.

Either way, no answer that you get on trumpetherald is going to be a good answer as there are too many unanswered questions and nobody has seen or heard you play.

Jason Draper · Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:53 am Post subject:

I believe in what both rafael mendez and sergei narciokoff have said. If you want to play high, then learn to play low. Could describe in some detail what your practice routine looks like?
Regards,
Jason

kehaulani · Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:30 am Post subject:

Too many moving parts to give a more specific answer, but if it were me, I would keep my original placement and spend a lot of time on long tones and flow studies in your weak register.

Also, flow studies crossing in and out of your solid register to your "weak" register.
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Jason Draper · Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2023 7:31 am Post subject:

I might consider checking out master classes and methodology by Scott Belck.

mograph · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Feb 2020 Posts: 101

It sounds to me as if you need to develop your embouchure muscles and recalibrate your sensations, using the 60/40 embouchure that gives you good tone. Gradually work your way up from the top of your "good tone" range, slowly.

The Knevitt-Cimera Method for Developing the Upper Register (from qPress) has a series of exercises, or "lessons." The idea is, you do each lesson over three weeks: a slightly different way each week, in terms of dynamics, breath, slur. After the three weeks, you move to the next lesson, which is the same thing, but a semitone higher. I think that this slow progress, but with the good tone embouchure, might help you.
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gwood66 · Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 4:32 am Post subject:

My recommendation is ditch the old embouchure, be patient and gradually develop your new embouchure. Sometimes you have to take one step back to be able to take a few steps forward. Trumpet playing is a turtle race. There are no magic exercises, mouthpieces, or horns as much as we all want there to be. You cant rush the process.

FWIW I went through a complete embouchure change in my 10th grade year of high school. It sucked while I was doing it because I went from playing first parts to playing fourth parts. By the end of the year, I was back on first part, had better tone and the best range in the section.

Best of luck and stay with it.
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Billy B · Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:13 pm Post subject:

I had a drummer friend who could play loud double Cs and above with the most god awful sound.
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AlexBazinet · Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:18 pm Post subject:

I'd like to clarify a few things
1. I'm not going back to the old embouchure intentionally it just kinda happens

2.I'm going to make a recording so you all can get an idea of my actual playing

one other thing is I'm the only one at my school ,other than a trombone player, who can play in this range.

JayKosta · Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2023 1:23 pm Post subject:

Your making a video will be a big help towards getting good advice.
I suggest that the video shows you playing a true musical piece - maybe a recognizable song - even if you have to take it up an octave to get the range you have mentioned.
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gwood66 · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:10 am Post subject:

Christian K. Peters · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:45 am Post subject: How to play high

Hello all,
Alex, I would say to be patient, and wait to get in a routine with your teacher. It sounds with the 80/20, 60/40 that you have a normal overbite, and a normal embouchure. I would say that more work with technique and flexibility will aid you in the long run. You don't want to aid bad habits so take your time. Sounds like a good start for being in 10th grade. I would study videos of trumpet heroes, and watch what they do and how they sound. Vizzuti, Severinsen and others for the commercial side. Watch some classical guys and see how they interpret the various etudes...There are hundreds of videos of very refined players. Pick an artist, and strive to follow their footsteps. There is much more than high notes.
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Wilktone · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 6:22 am Post subject:

You had a clean double G and changed your embouchure? Perhaps you need to learn to play the rest of your range with that setting with a more open and resonant tone. That might be better in the long term than trying to play with a setting that doesn't allow you to play in your upper register.
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Al Innella · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 6:57 am Post subject:

What I'm reading is you're not changing your embouchure, you're changing your mouthpiece placement. You're not changing the way you uses your lips, roll in , roll out, pucker, upstream. downstream. All these can be played with the same mouthpiece placement.
Find your sweet spot and learn to work with it.

Wilktone · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:20 am Post subject:

Depending on how far you're changing the mouthpiece placement you absolutely can be changing your embouchure. Air stream direction, for example, is determined by the ratio of upper to lower lip inside the mouthpiece, not horn angle. There are also some things that a brass musician can do that constitutes as embouchure type switching that aren't related to changing the mouthpiece placement.

But yes, once your find your "sweet spot," you should keep it consistent and learn to play your entire range with it. Again, I haven't seen the OP play, but as a general rule of thumb I would lean towards going with the high register embouchure and working on playing well with that setting than the other way around.

Dave
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