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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 993 Location: Europe
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Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:30 am Post subject: Flugelhorn projection |
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Is it common for flugelhorns to project really well? I always assumed that they'd be softer than trumpets. However, in a recording of a recent concert I was taken aback by how loud my flugel playing was. I didn't play really softly but I definitely didn't go all out...yet on the recording, it was pretty loud. Moreso than a trumpet solo I played during another part of the concert.
Do any of you generally hold back when you play the flugel because of this? Or do you generally feel like you have to push a little harder on flugel solos? _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2056 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 4:29 am Post subject: |
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I had a similar experience recently in the orchestra and a while back while playing in a small, very dry sounding church. The trumpet works and all is fine but I did play a bunch on the flugel on both occasions and felt like it sounded … „more present“, maybe. I don’t want to say louder but the sound distributed better than with trumpet. Like you I was not pushing it at all, neither with trumpet nor with the flugel. It was quite an interesting experience and I’ll make sure to take the flugel to our rehearsals and to that particular church more often. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Riojazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 1015 Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Mine tends to spread out more than project, and a lot depends on where the recording device is.
In my church orchestra, I use a cup mute on trumpet and cornet, but play the flugelhorn open at normal volume. However, I use a flugel mouthpiece with the next size deeper cup than what I use for jazz.
I have some flugelhorn mutes but I don't like them because of the slight change in pitch and the loss of flexibility I feel when using a mute. _________________ Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 993 Location: Europe
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | I had a similar experience recently in the orchestra and a while back while playing in a small, very dry sounding church. The trumpet works and all is fine but I did play a bunch on the flugel on both occasions and felt like it sounded … „more present“, maybe. I don’t want to say louder but the sound distributed better than with trumpet. Like you I was not pushing it at all, neither with trumpet nor with the flugel. It was quite an interesting experience and I’ll make sure to take the flugel to our rehearsals and to that particular church more often. |
Agreed, maybe louder isn't quite the right word, but the balance was definitely off. It didn't really sound much different on my side though. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2814 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I’m lucky to have a Hub van Laar Ack and a Stomvi Titan. They are both wonderful horns with excellent power and projection when needed, especially the Ack. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2056 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 10:03 am Post subject: |
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I think the OPs question is rather the opposite: the flugel seemed to be over-present. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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My impression is that the flugelhorn sound "spreads" more, and will fill a small room more than you might think. In a large hall, or competing against a loud band, I don't think the flugel will out-project a trumpet, though the trumpet will probably be more directional.
Years ago I played in a quartet that played jazz standards in a small restaurant. I brought my trumpet and flugelhorn once. Thereafter I brought a cornet, two mouthpieces, and bucket, cup, and harmon mutes. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 993 Location: Europe
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Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | My impression is that the flugelhorn sound "spreads" more, and will fill a small room more than you might think. In a large hall, or competing against a loud band, I don't think the flugel will out-project a trumpet, though the trumpet will probably be more directional.
Years ago I played in a quartet that played jazz standards in a small restaurant. I brought my trumpet and flugelhorn once. Thereafter I brought a cornet, two mouthpieces, and bucket, cup, and harmon mutes. |
Hmm, you may have a point there. The venue we played at had most of the characteristics of a small restaurant, including a low ceiling. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023 Posts: 478
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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stuartissimo wrote: |
Hmm, you may have a point there. The venue we played at had most of the characteristics of a small restaurant, including a low ceiling. |
In the guitar world, we have instruments called, "parlor guitars". Essentially, smaller-bodied, and specifically designed to play in smaller, intimate surroundings. All without giving up any tonality. _________________ Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 993 Location: Europe
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | In the guitar world, we have instruments called, "parlor guitars". Essentially, smaller-bodied, and specifically designed to play in smaller, intimate surroundings. All without giving up any tonality. |
Given that I was playing a pocket-sized flugel (compared to regular flugels anyway), you'd think it'd work in a similar manner. But apparently it doesn't . _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023 Posts: 478
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:40 am Post subject: |
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stuartissimo wrote: | Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | In the guitar world, we have instruments called, "parlor guitars". Essentially, smaller-bodied, and specifically designed to play in smaller, intimate surroundings. All without giving up any tonality. |
Given that I was playing a pocket-sized flugel (compared to regular flugels anyway), you'd think it'd work in a similar manner. But apparently it doesn't . |
Hmmm ...
Makes me wonder (?). Are there horns that might be categorized as "parlor horns". Horns that can be played at p or pp levels, while still maintaining good tone ... horns that DO NOT PROJECT; but, rather, spread/diffuse the sound ? _________________ Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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poketrum Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Mar 2023 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:56 am Post subject: |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | https://www.pocketcornets.com/conn_parlor_cat.jpg |
Good for Tourists and Ladies. |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023 Posts: 478
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Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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A "new" (not so new, actually) category for horns?
With my recently acquired (see my post, entitled "Thrift Store Score") OLDS Recording, I am achieving really dark (timbered), "fluffy" flugelhorn-like tones, at surprisingly soft volume levels. Not quite as sweet as I have been doing with the Pre-War French Besson cornet ... but, close.
No doubt, much has to do with my "Rube Goldberg-esque" mouthpiece + adapter/tuning bit I have experimented with.
Nevertheless, it works.
I am very pleased. I foresee some interesting applications/gigs (small rooms, intimate settings, lounges). _________________ Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 993 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | With my recently acquired (see my post, entitled "Thrift Store Score") OLDS Recording, I am achieving really dark (timbered), "fluffy" flugelhorn-like tones, at surprisingly soft volume levels. |
If it’s anything like the Recording trumpet, that doesn’t surprise me. My Recording trumpet plays softly very well and responds to very small amounts of air. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2056 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 2:17 am Post subject: |
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Not to sidetrack too far but I recently had the chance to play my teachers Taylor (Chicago??) trumpet and it was a most amazing experience. I have never (by far) played an instrument that needs as little air to start a nice, very soft sound (well, maybe my Schmidt). Truly impressive. I could see someone using that type of characteristics in a „parlor“ setting. The instrument essentially speaks at „no air“. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | Thereafter I brought a cornet, two mouthpieces, and bucket, cup, and harmon mutes. |
I hadn't mentioned that the cornet I brought was a '62 Olds Recording. With my oddball mouthpiece choices, very easy to play bright or dark at a whisper. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Flugelhorn speaks just fine. There's only one flugelhorn in a British brass band. |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023 Posts: 478
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Jaw04 wrote: | Flugelhorn speaks just fine. There's only one flugelhorn in a British brass band. |
Is this a hard fact ?
I was not aware of this. _________________ Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 993 Location: Europe
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Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Jaw04 wrote: | Flugelhorn speaks just fine. There's only one flugelhorn in a British brass band. |
Good point. And I suppose given their origins as military signal horns, it shouldn't have surprised me. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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