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chet_fan
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Joined: 11 Sep 2023
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 Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:17 am Post subject: Classical players and their "bright" sound |
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Hello all,
I've been listening to classical music a lot lately. Especially Christopher Martin and Philip Smith. They both have a sound that I would describe as being bright.
I am wondering how they achieve this. Obviously their expertise plays a role, but I am also considering whether mouthpiece design and horn choice can play into it as well.
They sound so joyful and I'd like to incorporate that into my own sound. |
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bagmangood
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Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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Location: SF Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:45 am Post subject: |
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I like the visualizations/words that Peter Bond uses in his book, but I will state that it is my interpretation of them:
Top orchestral/classical pros play right in the center of the sound and it makes it very brilliant. It is about maximizing overtones and yes equipment does make a difference.
Equipment absolutely plays a factor in how to optimize for those results, but without the adjustment to approach you won't get there either.
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chet_fan
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Joined: 11 Sep 2023
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| bagmangood wrote: | I like the visualizations/words that Peter Bond uses in his book, but I will state that it is my interpretation of them:
Top orchestral/classical pros play right in the center of the sound and it makes it very brilliant. It is about maximizing overtones and yes equipment does make a difference.
Equipment absolutely plays a factor in how to optimize for those results, but without the adjustment to approach you won't get there either. |
Interesting. So what is the equipment they would be using that helps them make that sound? |
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bagmangood
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Couple of things (all general statements, etc. etc.):
- tend to be yellow brass horns (lower copper content): this leads to a broader set of overtones rather than emphasizing the fundamental
- similarly medium to larger size cups giving a big but still well rounded baseline
- Standard (non-reversed) or hidden reverse leadpipes, ensuring the bracing to the bell helps with projection.
If you try a pro orchestral players setup (i.e. Rolfs plays on a Stork 2B+25C with a Yamaha NY C), you will probably hear somewhat the tendency. Playing the same equipment as a pro doesn't make you sound like them, but it can help!
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chet_fan
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Joined: 11 Sep 2023
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| bagmangood wrote: | | Playing the same equipment as a pro doesn't make you sound like them, but it can help! |
True words. I doubt I will ever get to that place. |
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cheiden
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW the popular Bach 229 C trumpet generally produces a bright penetrating sound. I'm sure there's a similar Yamaha model but I don't know which one compares.
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Classical players and their "bright" sound |
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| chet_fan wrote: | Hello all,
I've been listening to classical music a lot lately. Especially Christopher Martin and Philip Smith. They both have a sound that I would describe as being bright.
I am wondering how they achieve this. Obviously their expertise plays a role, but I am also considering whether mouthpiece design and horn choice can play into it as well.
They sound so joyful and I'd like to incorporate that into my own sound. |
It's interesting that you have posted this because for so long there was this idea that trumpet players need to darken their sound, and a whole culture with the trumpet was built around this idea.
When I think of the trumpet players I've always really enjoyed, I don't think any of their sounds would be considered to be "dark" - they all have very vibrant, lively sounds.
Wyton Marsalis - specifically his classical recordings
Empire Brass/Rolf Smedvig
Maurice Andre
Sergei Nakariakov
Some considered Bud Herseth's sound to be bright too. Huge, but bright.
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Lawler Bb
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Mouthpiece and horn can certainly influence your sound, but nothing beats playing right down the center with as free and easy lip vibration as possible.
Most folks play high on the pitch, which "clouds" or dulls the sound to a varying degree. Check into this and make sure you aren't playing too high. If you're playing a bathtub of a mouthpiece and you can't handle it, that will be a factor. If your trumpet weighs 10lbs (only kidding), that's a factor.
Seriously, strive for the most resonance you can possibly get. You will sound nasal/harsh/bright/buzzy in your ears when you are getting there. Don't shy away from it. "Let go" of the notes (don't squeeze your lips together) and allow your chops to vibrate. Your chops have one job. To vibrate and produce sound. They should just go along for the ride.
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Subtropical and Subpar
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: Classical players and their "bright" sound |
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| trickg wrote: | | chet_fan wrote: | Hello all,
I've been listening to classical music a lot lately. Especially Christopher Martin and Philip Smith. They both have a sound that I would describe as being bright.
I am wondering how they achieve this. Obviously their expertise plays a role, but I am also considering whether mouthpiece design and horn choice can play into it as well.
They sound so joyful and I'd like to incorporate that into my own sound. |
It's interesting that you have posted this because for so long there was this idea that trumpet players need to darken their sound, and a whole culture with the trumpet was built around this idea.
When I think of the trumpet players I've always really enjoyed, I don't think any of their sounds would be considered to be "dark" - they all have very vibrant, lively sounds.
Wyton Marsalis - specifically his classical recordings
Empire Brass/Rolf Smedvig
Maurice Andre
Sergei Nakariakov
Some considered Bud Herseth's sound to be bright too. Huge, but bright. |
I don't know that I would call it dark per se, but I've always thought Nakariakov had a darker sound than classical Wynton or Maurice. Part of that might be due to Sergei primarily playing a B flat trumpet rather than a C on his recordings, and playing a b flat trumpet that is almost entirely bronze and nickel at that. I don't have enough experience with Rolf's repertoire to compare him to anyone else.
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2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
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jcubed901
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Joined: 07 Sep 2022
Posts: 26
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:32 am Post subject: |
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I’ll second Peter Bond’s book, “The Singing Trumpet”. He explains imagery that helps trumpet players develop a beautiful, resonant sound that carries throughout a room
Also, check out these resources. You can hear how different changes impact the sound:
1) Changing mental concept: Arturo Sandoval demonstrates 3 distinct sound approaches on the same trumpet + mp, https://youtu.be/5S_s88HkGOo?si=8ptRe0EDge5GPa2s
2) Changing mouthpiece: Trent Austin demos a Bach 72 with a 3c mp, then switches to a more efficient mp, https://youtu.be/G0A3F-a6nFU?si=XxbdP84hKwnhF4LR
3) Changing horns: Joe Babiak plays similar music on 52 different horns. A great way to see how horns impact the sound, https://youtu.be/ox1uXzMBp4I?si=TQeTnphP5GkdoHMi |
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