Purchase Advice

[CaptPat]

Coming back to trumpet and am seeking advice on purchasing a horn. I played in HS (late 70's) and came back in the mid 90's for a short period till work and family obligations made it tough to consistently practice. My original instrument was an student Olds, and I rented a Yamaha student horn in the 90's IIRC I wasn't in love with the Yamaha

My budget for a horn is ~$500 for a used instrument (there's room to flex for a good opportunity). I've noodled around a bit on the web (Marketplace, Craigslist, Reverb, etc.) concluding that a new instrument is outside my budget. For a bit more a good used professional horn is easily in reach. In my location the pickings on Marketplace and Craigslist are pretty slim, seems a bit odd since I live in a university town.

What should I look for in a used instrument beyond cosmetic condition, and the valves/slides all move? Any brands that are consistently a good value, as well as brands to avoid; have to think about resale value in case the third time is not a charm. I'm not a collector or restorer, my priority is acquiring a good user horn.

A final question what are folks experience with Reverb?

Thanks

Pat

[kehaulani]

Call Austin Custom Brass and talk with one of the people there about your goals and budget. All the salespersons are professional musicians.
https://www.austincustombrass.biz/
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Rogerrr]

I have bought three used Olds trumpets off Reverb from different sellers and each time the instrument was exactly as described.

My rule about a place like Reverb is focus on the ads that include photos of all the individual parts like valves and slides. Even if you can’t tell a lot from the photos it shows attention to detail and some knowledge of trumpets unlike someone who just found grandpa’s trumpet in the attic & has no clue what condition it’s in.
_________________
Sax player learning cornet & trumpet...and occasionally a little bit of trombone.
( so don't confuse me with an experienced player )

[Dayton]

Unless the horn looks like it was run over by a steam roller, I'd suggest that the first concern is valves that are fast and smooth. Valve repairs/rebuilds can be quite expensive, so that is work you want to avoid.

The next area of concern would be avoidance of red rot. The most common places to find it are the leadpipe and the crooks of the slides. Replacing those components could also be costly.

You also want to avoid horns with major dents and patches (in general). Minor dents and dings are likely not a big deal as long as they do not impede slide motion. They can often be removed inexpensively and typically don't have a big impact on sound. Also, if you opt for a vintage horn, a patch might not be too big of a deal, but a patch on a recent instrument could be an indication of serious damage.

I would then say you should look for slides that move smoothly, particularly the main tuning slide and the third valve slide. If they don't, they can probably be unstuck inexpensively, but it is a gamble.

I'd also suggest avoiding a horn with a damaged bell, although a good repair tech can do wonders with many kinds of bell damage. But it might be expensive and might have more of an impact on the horn than damage in other locations.

Cosmetic condition is a personal preference. If I was on a tight budget I would make cosmetic condition a low priority, but cosmetic condition can be an indicator of how well a horn was cared for.

The Getzen 300/400 series student trumpets are sometimes available used in your price range. They are well-made instruments and might be worth considering.

Good luck!

[CaptPat]

Thanks for the advice both here and in several PM's I received.

I'm after doing some research on the market I've decided to increase my budget. I'm a bit leery of "student" horns. My previous experience with a student Yamaha was not a big success, and less so after I was able to try my buddy's Callicchio. The Yamaha was like a tool, the Callicchio was a partner. I think there are a number of good choices when stepping up from the student level. Haven't yet established a budget limit however, as the price goes up so must the value. The ability to recoup my investment in case the comeback doesn't last becomes more important.

Currently looking at Getzen Eterna II, Strad 37, Besson International, Yamaha Allegro, and 6335 -- all seem to be well regarded here on TH.

Well the hunt continues....

[ldwoods]

If you liked the Calicchio so much, I must ask which model it was. If it was the typical lead config, 1s/2, then you will probably NOT like most Bach Strads. If you like lighter and brighter, like most Calicchio horns, then look at Schilke and some Yamaha models. In fact I just sold another lighter horn that may have suited you, it was a King Silver Flair 1055T. They are fantastic horns, keep your eyes open and you might be able to snag one in the $850-$1,000 range. It should be from the late 60s to very early 70s. You might want to do a search on TH for threads discussing King Silver Flair 1055T.
_________________
Larry Woods
LDWoods

[CaptPat]

Yes it was a Callicchio 1s2. Thoughts in a King 2055?

[Ronnman]

CaptPat - Pass on the King 2055T. You might try a Getzen 700 Eterna II. They can be had in your price range. Getzen build quality is good and their valves are excellent. Below are some of the questions I always ask, when buying online, if not posted or obvious.
Ron

Does this horn have a lacquer finish or is it unfinished brass?

What is the approximate year of manufacture?
What is the bore size?
Is the any red rot on the horn?
Any dings or dents on the horn?
Any bent tubing or braces on the trumpet?
Any evidence of repairs to the horn?
Does the price include the original case?
What shipping method will be used, FEDEX, UPS, USPS… other?

Please provide pics of both sides of the valves and slides removed from the horn. Also, pics inline of the lead pipe and bell tube from the crook vantage point.
_________________
Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014

[ldwoods]

[ldwoods]

I just saw candidate for you in TH Marketplace. You will probably like how it plays, but I am not sure about resale value down the road if you do not like it. If you paid $850 for it, depending on how quick you want to resell it, you might need to accept $700-$800.



https://www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=144328&s=Yamaha-YTR-732-Silver-medium-bore

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation or knowledge of the seller.
_________________
Larry Woods
LDWoods

[WxJeff]

[kehaulani]

[CaptPat]

Whelp, talk about paralysis by analysis, lots of time spent on REVERB, Ebay, TH Marketplace, FB marketplace. It's almost all blending together. As I mentioned earlier I've increased the budget, focussing on resale value instead.

I'd like to give a shout-out to Austin Custom Brass, Josh spent about 30 minutes on the phone with me coming up with some suggestions. No upsell or pressure.

Under active (horn is in reasonable condition, fair price, and is available) consideration:

Getzen Eterna II
Schagrel JM2 (demo unit)
King Silver Flare 1055T
Andrews Sonic (demo unit)
Various Strad -- I found one on FB Marketplace that seems in excellent condition for a very good price.

Still looking at Yamaha 63XX and 83XX

Again thanks for all of the advice and recommendations, it's helping sort through it all.

[WxJeff]

We've all been there, brother, enjoy the ride! Definitely sounds like you're doing due diligence.
_________________
Kanstul F Besson International 800 Bb
Jupiter SCR-520

[JWG]

Just as you should choose mouthpieces based first upon how their diameter fits your lips, you should choose a trumpet based upon how the resonating part of the instrument fits you. Ask yourself what "concept" of sound you value from your trumpet and whether the music you play necessitates your playing a variety of sound concepts to fit the music you like to perform.

As I have very good lung capacity, I enjoy .468 and .470 extra-large bore horns based upon the quantity of sound that I can get out of them, their lower resistance, and the flexibility they give me manipulating the standing wave within the horn.

Next, I consider the bell shape. My concept of a great bell is one that allows me to blend with a section yet light up when I need to lead an ensemble. One of the best compliments which I received came from a woodwind player who said that my playing inspired the ensemble to make the music exciting. For this reason, I played a Bach 72 most of my years and then graduated to a Wild Thing with its large throated bell that plays mellow when below a mezzoforte and begins to come alive when you ramp up to a forte or greater.

Then, you have lead pipe design. The Wild Thing has a very good normal lead pipe that fits the lightweight body of the horn. However, on my Bach trumpets, I really find the 180LR horns superior to the standard 180 designs, based upon the 180LR having a lightweight body paired with a long reversed lead pipe and a standard weight bell.

Penultimately, an important consideration remains the valves, because you cannot get from note to note if you have troublesome and/or non-responsive valves.

Finally, you should consider the finish of the horn. Silver gives long-lasting protection to the horn, has nearly the same speed-of-sound rating as brass, and has anti-bacterial properties. A double silver dip though will tend to make a horn darker. Gold gives you an even darker sound, because gold does not stick to brass and must get plated upon silver. Gold will always give a darker sound than silver not just due to the need for double plating but also due to the fact that sound travels more slowly through gold than silver or brass. Lacquer horns have an inherent problem: it's nearly impossible to apply an even coat (this causes sound inconsistencies from horn to horn, especially on older horns that manufacturers hand-sprayed) and the lacquer will wear and flake off through the decades, leaving you with a raw brass horn that will start to corrode due to the salts from the sweat glands on your hands.

So, I advocate that you think hard about what you want in a horn before you buy one, as it will save you from having to go on both a "mouthpiece safari" and a "horn safari" . . . and do not limit yourself to only $500 as you can likely get a great used horn that will fit your sound concept and last you a lifetime for $1500.

I missed so many great buy opportunities due to having an artificial spending limit rather than getting the horn that I wanted. Sometimes, you just have to say "what the hell" and live a little poor for a while to get what you want.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF

[Brassnose]

Gotta love that „what the hell“ aspect in the previous post Personally (and this goes back to a joke with my wife awhile back) I’ll try to limit myself to no more than ten instruments - so far that has worked out 💪
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[CaptPat]

Well, I thought I'd tie this off I purchased a Bach 37, found a great deal, and went for it. It's not where I thought I'd end up when I started. But I've wanted one for a long time and "what the hell" I worked long and hard to get to this point so time to enjoy.

[Ronnman]

CaptPat - congrats on the horn you had on your list!
Ron
_________________
Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014

[cgaiii]

[CaptPat]

I like it.

Surprised myself on the first attempt I was able to coax out a passable scale (low C to middle C). After that things began to regress, no surprise. I expect things will start getting better after I train my lip. For now, my routine is several 15-minute sessions/day, after about 15 minutes the tone starts to really degrade so I stop. Aside from being able to read music and remembering most of the fingerings it really is like starting from ground zero again.

I've ID'd a potential instructor, once I get to be able to post a 30-minute training session I'll start with some lessons, initially to make sure that the right foundation is present.