Comparing the B&S Challenger and 2 to the Bach 37

[Irving]

Any opinions as to how the Challenger 1 compares to the Challenger 2, and how they both compare with a stock Bach 37ML?

[tcutrpt]

I am not sure what the 1 and 2 stand for in your post, but I can comment on the Challenger horns that I played last summer at ITG. I really loved the evenness over the whole range of the horn and the resistence was consistent. The one downside for me was that the ones I played tended to be pretty bright sounding...a bit too bright for my liking. They are a great playing trumpet though and they are a great deal for the money.
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Matt Cyr
trumpetmc@gmail.com

[trumpetmike]

They can sound amazing (listen to Juoko Harjanne - B&S Artist, gave a recital at ITG last year, breathtakingly beautiful) and may well suit some players better than Bachs. I think their Bb is amazing value for money, plays very well and has very impressive intonation throughout the range.
Where they really score heavily over Bach is with the higher trumpets - the piccolo is absolutely stunning value for money and the Eb plays as well as most out there.

If I was given the choice between only Bach or B&S I would probably go for the Bach, just so that I could give myself more options. The last time I checked B&S only offered a single leadpipe or bell configuration (basically a standard Bach 37), whilst with a Bach you can obtain many different bells or leapipes and get them made easily interchangeable.

As it is, I play Yamaha. I own one Bach (due to it being quite a good buy at the time) but it doesn't come out too often. I find the Yamaha more versatile, for me.

[Martin]

I thought some more information might be in order, so here goes:

B&S makes
- the Challenger line (model 3137, also referred to as Challenger I) which is basically an excellent copy of the Bach 37. Also available with gold-brass leadpipe and/or bell. This model is an intermediate instrument, according to B&S. IMHO, it´s a ridiculously low-priced pro horn.
- the Challenger II (model 3137/2 etc.) line which has as many options as the Bach Strad and then some. All kinds of lead pipes (standard and reverse), bells (37, 25, 43, 72 and a couple of signature models), weights, bore sizes, materials (including sterling silver) and finishes. There´s even a modular trumpet with interchangeable bells and leadpipes.
- the Challenger II Elaboration series in matte lacquer. Two models so far: the 3138 (featuring a lightweight bell) - this model is played by Mark Pender of Late Night fame - and the 3178.

Are you still with me? OK. I have owned some Bach 37s as well as a Challenger 3137 and an Elaboration 3178 with reverse leadpipe.
In short, the B&S horns played more evenly and more open in all registers than the Bachs, with excellent sound and intonation. Workmanship, valves, slides, consistency is top notch with the Challengers. Definitely try them. They are on the top of my "Wish-I-hadn´t-sold-this-horn"-list.
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All the best

Martin
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"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

[Tim80]

I just won a Gerhard Bayer 3137 trumpet on ebay. I believe it is the same trumpet as the B&S Challenger I. Gerhard Baier's and B&S Challenger's websites are the clue. I'm really looking forward to trying this trumpet. Especially considering the price. Compare the history page on B&S's site to the Gerhard Baier link. Or this guy's working two jobs.

http://www.gerhardbaier.com/about.html

http://www.challenger-trumpets.com/index2.ht

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2374730613&category=16214

Tim
Plant City, Florida



[ This Message was edited by: Tim80 on 2004-01-27 15:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Tim80 on 2004-08-07 18:06 ]

[Tim80]

I recieved the Gerhard Baier trumpet yesterday. It is a fine little trumpet. It is easy to play. Very responsive and it a has a nice tone. I think it is the best $341 I ever spent. I've been told by others that it is the same trumpet a B&S Challenger I. The tone isn't as big as it is on my old Benge 3X+ but that is to be expected. It has that Bach type tone to it. I've bought and sold many trumpets just for the fun of. This one appeals to me because I'm a cheapskate and it plays well. What more can someone ask for? The gold caps are a little over the top for me but Ican live with it.
_________________
Tim


Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate; now what's going to happen to us with both a Senate and a House?
Will Rogers





[ This Message was edited by: Tim80 on 2004-08-07 18:06 ]

[Martin]

Well done, Tim!

I´m glad I didn´t steer you wrong. I´m a big fan of those Challenger horns - best value for the money IMHO, over here in Euro-Land at least. They usually sell for around $650 in lacquer here (new), so you got a pretty good deal.
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

[Tim80]

Martin,
I'm very happy. This horn looks brand new. It's going to be my daily driver. I'll have my old LA Benge mlp repaired but I need a smaller bore trumpet. The B&S gold plated 5C mouthpiece that came with it look like it had been barely touched. I can really recommend this to students who are looking for a step up horn. These things can be had for half the price of a new Bach.

Tim

[jophst]

I would like to quickly share my view on the two horns.

I once owned a B&S Challenger II Silver 2GB/37 I think it was. It was a very nice horn indeed and played extremely well. I have since sold it but it is at the top of my regret list. It played so easily and had a great gorgeous sound.

The tone wasn't quite as full and pure as a Bach Strad, but was 95% there and well worth the money. The valves on the B&S II were very very fast and smooth and the intonation was great. I would recommend it to ANYONE that does not need the words Bach Stradivarius etched into the bell ... like I do apparently. I'm mental I suppose.

I'd really like to try the Challenger C trumpets!
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Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

[JackD]

I agree with what's already been said - the Challenger is great value for money, put personally I prefer the Bach.