Is the right equipment essential to high note playing?

roelf · Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:53 pm Post subject:

Is the right equipment essential to high note playing?
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fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:01 pm Post subject:

I've always thought that equipment could only facilitate (make easier) what you can already do. For instance, if you can play in the extreme upper register on a Bach 1 mouthpiece, then a Schilke 14A4a would only make it easier for you, but the 14A4a can't automatically give you the ability to play in the extreme upper register if you can't already do it.
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trump_it · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Mar 2003 Posts: 319

My Double G's are almost non-existant on my Giardinelli, but when I use my Jet Tone they're as easy as playing middle C.

roelf · Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject:

Trptbenge · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:40 am Post subject:

My experiences has been that some equipment, like the 13A4a and the 14A4a Schilke mouthpieces, seem to help use your lips and channel your air more efficiently. Also, some horns seem to close off or in some cases lose focus when you go into the upper register. I wish I knew all the physics behind this but I don't.

Mike

BobList · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:04 am Post subject:

Cheating is bad. period. Repeat 500,000 times. If I did, I certainly DO NOT want to be in the same company as those cheaters like Doc Severenson, Maynard, Walt Johnson, or Dave Stahl. They aren't that good...they CHEAT because they don't use Bach (TM) 3-C mouthpieces. So, I'm gonna stay away from the bands they are in, or lead, and stay RIGHT here with my community concert band....working on range drills for 35 years on a Bach Mega-Hole (TM) Bowlmaster, so that one day, I can scream high G's like they do WITHOUT cheating, and be a better player for it. Until then, I will NEVER succumb to the fallicy that a shallower or smaller piece will facilitate my upper regester. We MUST WORK HARDER. I hate when the guys in my beginning Community Band play higher than me, and can be heard over the section with their CHEATER mouthpieces. As a FIRST trumpet...I can't get it thru to these guys that they must decrease all volume so that I can be heard screaming high A's one line above the staff on my Bowlmaster (TM). And if we have to go over the music more than once, my chops are shot, and I can't hit the A. But I will increase my daily drills to 10 hours instead of just 8 so I can hit it without using a "cheater" piece.

Stuck in the past in Baltimore,
Bobby "Bigger gives a BETTER sound" List

_dcstep · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:03 am Post subject:

LOL.

Great parody...
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MaynardProdigy · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:32 am Post subject:

I played a 14A4a in HS and was cheating alright. I hit the notes I wanted to but had to sacrafice most of the lower register. 7 years later I've started to play again. Man I tell you, I got rid of that paper weight. I picked up a 14C2 and played if for about a month. It was a great chop builder but my endurance still did not last. I could hit a C above the staff but then would get tired quickly. So I decided to pick up a 14B, silghtly shallower cup and a flater rim. The 14B made a world of difference to me. I can hit thoes high C nice and strong without the endurace problem. I've been playing on it about 4 months now. My lower register is still fat and the upper is getting better everyday I play. I've been curious to see how I react to the 14A4. I might pick one up the next time that I'm in the States. But for right now the 14B has been my Holy Grail..
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brasszebra · Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject:

I`m not a super high player, but I can play the high C and D when I need to. You can look at the mouthpieces I use at the botom of my post. I have a Shilke 12a4 that I put it in to mess around with once and a while and I can play the high F and G but my sound is horrible. One of my fellow players played on a small piece and could hit all those notes but his sound was thin and very bright. He plays a Bach 3C now and can still play some of the high stuff but his sound much better.

The more practice I get in, the better my range is. Regardless of the mouthpiece I use. If you want the wide range I would say practice. Remember the old saying: practice makes perfect. I alway have a cheater mouthpiece with my just in case I can`t play that high note because im tired or have been playing for a million hours that day, but it has never come out of the pouch. Its there incase its needed.

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[ This Message was edited by: brasszebra on 2004-01-27 20:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: brasszebra on 2004-01-27 20:47 ]

Christian K. Peters · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:09 am Post subject:

I never had much luck with real shallow mouthpieces. Switching from a C cup to a B cup was as much as I could do without having my lips bottom out in the cup. The back bore and the gap in the tuning slide, I feel is more important in having the horn play well in the upper register. But then, I am not a sreamer!!!
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brassmonkey · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:26 am Post subject:

I think that way too many people use moutpieces as a "crutch". A mouthpiece should develop certain characteristic sounds and used more for style, not for changing your range or immediately doing something that you have never done before. I believe with what was said earlier ..... you should be able to play a note already and then have the "shallower" mouthpiece help a little, but dont forget that you will always sacrifice or change something in your playing.
If you are used to playing on a big mouthpiece, then you might be more succeptable to "bottoming out" on a shallower mouthpiece, or you might have tuning issues that you never had before etc.
If your going for a certain sound that you can only get on a small mouthpiece, then use it, but if you want a good all around sound and flexiblity then you should go for something that is more specific to your teeth and lip structure.
I think we are also forgetting that something that could be shallow for me could possibly be a deeper mouthpiece for someone else. For instance, I use a Bach 3c or MAYBE a 3d to play lead and have very few issues up to double C. If I use something smaller, then I bottom out and cant play above an E or F. So it is all relative.
Just my .02
Josh
Recent UNCG Graduate

brassmonkey · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:32 am Post subject:

I think that way too many people use moutpieces as a "crutch". A mouthpiece should develop certain characteristic sounds and used more for style, not for changing your range or immediately doing something that you have never done before. I believe with what was said earlier ..... you should be able to play a note already and then have the "shallower" mouthpiece help a little, but dont forget that you will always sacrifice or change something in your playing.
If you are used to playing on a big mouthpiece, then you might be more succeptable to "bottoming out" on a shallower mouthpiece, or you might have tuning issues that you never had before etc.
If your going for a certain sound that you can only get on a small mouthpiece, then use it, but if you want a good all around sound and flexiblity then you should go for something that is more specific to your teeth and lip structure.
I think we are also forgetting that something that could be shallow for me could possibly be a deeper mouthpiece for someone else. For instance, I use a Bach 3c or MAYBE a 3d to play lead and have very few issues up to double C. If I use something smaller, then I bottom out and cant play above an E or F. So it is all relative.
Just my .02
Josh
Recent UNCG Graduate

roelf · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject:

Thanks a bunch! a lot of good info

Roel
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da_roadrunner · Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:52 pm Post subject:

The right equipment-horn-player match is essential for high note playing. I'm expirimenting with a bach strad this weekend (great horn, amazing core, I love it), but the high notes just aren't coming out as easily as my ambassador or getzen. I have the same issue with my connstellation as well. It just depends on the individual and the equipment combination that works best for them.

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:55 pm Post subject:

I don't think there is such a thing as cheating.... you use the equipment that will help you get the job done efficiently... you wouldn't ride a skateboard to work... or mop your bathroom floor with a toothbrush. (unless you're in Marine boot camp, but that's besides the point).
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_Don Herman · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:04 am Post subject:

mike ansberry · Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:23 pm Post subject:

Bobby Shew says you don't drive a nail with a screw driver, and you don't drive a screw with a hammer. You have to use the correct equipment for each job. He uses a smaller piece for lead playing and larger for legit stuff.

Personally, I can't seem to use a small piece because I bottom out. I wish I could make it work. It's a drag playing 4 hour rock and roll jobs on a big piece.

Mouthpieces are like shoes. What ever fits you, and what you want to do.

ARB · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:37 am Post subject:

I’m with BobList on this one, and I wish I had listened to his type of advice earlier.

As a comeback player when I first started my comeback I got sucked into that ‘high note testosterone trap’; I was buying screamer mpcs with the thought that if I could play it high I was making progress, but none of this was helping me develop my chops.

Well, I took some lessons, got the correct mpc for me (a not to shallow Warburton M), spent more time practicing, started reading the right books and study materials and guess what happened??, I started hitting high notes without sacrificing my low range.

Practice is an amazing and beautiful thing.

Schilke 13A4A for sale

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[ This Message was edited by: ARB on 2004-02-07 09:44 ]

MUSICandCHARACTER · Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:12 am Post subject:

A snippet from the Stork website:
http://www.storkcustom.com/html/pressure_buzzing.html

tradjazzman · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Nov 2002 Posts: 176

Quote:
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On 2004-01-25 17:53, roelf wrote:
Is the right equipment essential to high note playing?

Aweeee the age old question. Correct answer is "YES". There is no "maybe, or possibly......it is YES. The answer is YES. PERIOD!! All you need to do is look around at what the others are playing "that WORKS". Or look at those that insist on tring to play lead on a deep bowl-amatic piece who can not do it. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. For those that can play a 3 hr gig on lead with a 1 1/2 C that is great. For those of you who INSIST on tring and failing over and over because you thinks BIG IS BETTER......... my heart and "chops" bleed for you.

Getting the right equimpent for the right job just flat out makes sense. Some trumpets are more open up top, and why would you want to play high lead on a horn that is stuffy you there?? Or a mouthpiece that is made for symphonic playing, or mellow jazz playing. Would you try to play lead on a flugehorn, or flugehorn mouthpiece.????

What I did for years, and what I see some folks doing is they go from a Bach 1 diamater, to a diamater of a 10 1/2 , and from a C cup to a super shallow cup. Then they bottom out, the sound sucks, and the go back to the bigger piece. I went from one extreme to the other, and totaly FORGOT about the ones in the middle. Don't forget the med-shallow mouthpieces. I just couldn't play the extremes. Took me awhile to realize it, but what the hey........I was stubborn. I figured if he could it, I could do it. That is INCORRECT. And yes it might require spending some money to try a few before you find on that fits, and works. Don't go from a 1 1/2 diamter to a 12, and a C cup to a bent dime.

I went thru many, many smaller mouthpieces (the extreme) before I finally settled on a med shallow GR 64MS equal to about a Bach 7D. But I paid my dues, and money tring a good bit before I found what worked for "ME". Most of us don't find the perfect fit the first time out. For those of you that do. "YOU LUCKY DOGS". I still can't play double C's (nor do I try to). But I can play up a E-F and handle most lead, and I'm happy.

And for those that say they can play just as high on any mouthpiece I am very impressed. WAY TO GO. I play a Bach 7 (no letter) on cornet for mellower playing.
And NO WAY can I play a decent high F on it. Nor do I WANT TO. But I can switch to a trumpet with a med-shallow cup. And PRESTO.

Get the right equipment for the right job ......... and make your trumpet player life enjoyable and as easy as possible. Then you can concentrate on making music, and not worrying about your equipment. But be prepared (for some) to spend a few bucks till you find what works. It's worth evey penny when you do.

GOOD LUCK.

Ben