Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:41 pm Post subject: Performance worthy High F
I am a senior in high school and I got a new song in jazz band called A Mis Abuelos, There is a high F in it, yes, sitting on top of four ledger lines. I can play it, but I can't perform it, I feel like there is a difference between the two. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can turn my high F into a nice crispy, consistent, and performable note within three to four weeks? That's when the concert is. I have plenty of time to practice, I just need some guidance now. _________________ An indescribable passion, everyone's yearning to create music (yamaha 8335 II rkg)
For me, part of the problem is that when I see notes like that, I get ‘worried’ that I might miss it and as a result, overcompensate. This happens particularly during concerts, with overfocus and no do-overs. Recently I’ve been practicing on finding out where the note sits exactly and trying to make playing it properly and relaxed the ‘default’ response, rather than the overcompensation response. Essentially building confidence. It works somewhat but overcoming old mental/muscle habits takes time.
Hope that was helpful. A few weeks is generally a short time to make improvements to technique that stick well enough that they persist in concert settings. So maybe practicing and doing your best wil have to suffice for now, and work on that F for the next concert.
Anyway, good luck. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can turn my high F into a nice crispy, consistent, and performable note within three to four weeks?
If the issue is that you simply don't have a solid high F right now -- you need to be brutally honest with yourself about this -- you are probably not going to get there in 3-4 weeks. Talk to your jazz band director about that. What would he/she prefer that you do? Go for it and potentially miss? Play a different note?
If you are close, there are a few things to consider. First, would approach notes help (if there aren't any already)? Second, does the F slot better for you with an alternative fingering? You can play a high F with just the first valve, as many players do, but you can also play something approximating a high F (or E#) with just second valve, with first and second valves, with first and third valves, all three valves, and just third valve. One of those valve combinations might slot better for you than just first valve, so give them a try.
Another option is to practice the F as a Gb or G, if that is within your range. Sounds weird, but that can help in several ways.
As for your practice over the next few weeks, don't spend the whole time focused on the high F. Make sure you learn the rest of the chart, and whatever else you'll be playing, really well.
When you do work on your range, think of the notes below the F as your foundation. Lots of D and Eb will probably be of more value than obsessing over the F.
If the issue is that you own an F in the practice room but it isn't translating onto the stage, is it an endurance issue? In other words, is that chart coming up at the 100 minute mark of a 120 minute rehearsal, and your chops are already tired? If so, ask your band director if that chart can be moved up in rehearsal and on the program. That might help. Another thing you could do is trade parts with the second trumpet player on a few of the charts so that you are not always playing the high notes. That will help keep you strong through the program. Note that even pros do this sometimes.
Finally, in the immortal words of Claude Gordon, "Hit it hard and wish it well." If your band director wants you to go for it even if you might miss the high F, then really go for it. If you are tentative because you are worried about missing the note, you will simply increase your odds of missing the note. That's the "hit it hard" part. The "wish it well" part is leaving that note in the past the moment it is out of your bell. Whether you nailed it or missed it, don't let that affect the next notes.
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:04 am Post subject: High notes and missing them
I was sitting with Maynard Ferguson having dinner several years ago and he said, "if I miss a note I want the back wall to hear it". Trumpet is not a timid instrument and you really can't hide like the back row of violins can. Go for it with everything you can muster up and don't pysch yourself out every time a high note appears.
I push hard and try to play loud in that register but it's just too hard and quiet. My lips close off and it sounds terrible. I have no idea how to fix that and it makes me hate playing. _________________ An indescribable passion, everyone's yearning to create music (yamaha 8335 II rkg)
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 5:04 pm Post subject:
4 weeks (now 2) is not a lot of time, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
If I had to guess you are probably doing this when you see that high F:
Tanking up on air, getting tense in your upper chest area, pinching your lips together and blowing as harder to make the note come out.
Try:
Relax, don't panic, and be confident. If you played it once you can play it again. You have to believe that you can play the note. Attack it like you own it.
Dont over tank or over blow. I takes a lot less air to play high than you think. What you need to do is compress that air a little bit. Bryan Davis has some good videos on this.
Play a nice comfortable F in the staff. Now start playing chromatically from f in the staff as high as you can while consciously try not to clamp your lips down against each other. See how you can play. You may surprise yourself.
(take a look at Clarke Setting Up Drills or Clarke Technical Studies for scale exercises. You can also scout around for a copy of the Adam Routine and play the expanding scales.) Teach yourself not to clamp down.
Practice your high notes at the beginning of your routine when you are fresh and have good mechanics. Stop before you think you should so your body remembers what the mechanics of that note felt like with good technique.
Having been in a similar situation, where I had to play high notes in an exposed passage that were at the edge of my range, all I can say is give your best. Like Tony's post, if you clam it, make sure everyone can hear. Wear it proudly and dont let it affect the rest of the tune or concert.
Hit it hard, wish it well. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 7:52 pm Post subject:
If your top note is F and it is not consistent, I would wager if you listen carefully you will hear that the notes leading up to the F are suffering. Work on those notes until they are rock solid. _________________ Bill Bergren
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Performance worthy High F
ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi wrote:
I am a senior in high school and I got a new song in jazz band called A Mis Abuelos, There is a high F in it, yes, sitting on top of four ledger lines.
Well, nobody else has commented on this yet, but unless it's just a nomenclature thing I'm not clued in on, 'on top of four ledger lines' (treble clef, of course) is an A, not an F, which sits 'on top of' three , last I checked, with a D sitting 'on top of' two ledger lines.
So, do you need to slot an A? Pretty challenging for a lot of folks, especially in high school, or is it really an F, which is more approachable, but perhaps not in a short time frame? _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."
You're in high school. If you can't play a solid F, that's fine. Don't play it - put it down, or leave it out. Most likely playing a high C or D instead would be a much better alternative. Work on fundamentals and allow your upper register to get better over time.
There are professional players that can't play a solid high F in a performance context. Don't run before you can walk.
In terms of improving your upper register, something like Clarke's 1st study can be started on 3rd space C and extended upwards. Play at a comfortable volume without forcing, better to be on the soft side than the loud side, but comfortable and in control. When you reach the point where you are missing the top note, go back down 1 half step and play that exercise 3 times (with rests).
Stay there for a week. Be sure to put a SLIGHT crescendo as you go up and slight decrescendo going down. Then try for one more semitone, if it's not there, another week at whatever your top comfortable option is. And focus on making that little crescendo as you ascend.
There is NO rush. Range tends to come in chunks, so you may be stuck at High F for several months, and then one day you can suddenly go up to the Double A, but then get stuck there. It might take another 6 months then one day, notes up to the double C will suddenly pop out.
You just have to be patient. The altissimo range can take several years to develop. Some decide it's not worth it or are impatient and give up and go "a high D is enough" and that's fine too. But gradually extending your comfort zone works over time. It's not fun, but most players do it at some point.
Better to start now and stick with it
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 7:45 am Post subject:
Billy B wrote:
If your top note is F and it is not consistent, I would wager if you listen carefully you will hear that the notes leading up to the F are suffering. Work on those notes until they are rock solid.
I am a senior in high school and I got a new song in jazz band called A Mis Abuelos, There is a high F in it, yes, sitting on top of four ledger lines. I can play it, but I can't perform it, I feel like there is a difference between the two. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can turn my high F into a nice crispy, consistent, and performable note within three to four weeks? That's when the concert is. I have plenty of time to practice, I just need some guidance now.
Is the video below the chart you're talking about? I hear the lead part on this going to an F#. I see versions of Arturo playing it. If it's the same one and you're playing this same arrangement it's a pretty demanding chart, I would assume it presents challenges to you besides hitting the high note.
Is the version your band is playing a half-step lower or did you mean to say F#? Below the college band video I played the lick I think you're referring to, worked it out by ear but it should be pretty close.
Re: your issue, when you say you can play it do you mean you can touch on it sometimes or can you really nail it? Can you play an octave scale up to it and back down again?
It's going to be a tall order for you to get there in a short time span - you can't force it, it'll happen when it happens. If you can play a big F (F#?) try to be aware of what's going on when you hit one. That's where you have to be set every time. Every time you replicate that it'll happen - the theoretical way to get there quickly is to achieve the awareness of how to do it every time. If you can do that tomorrow you'll have it tomorrow. How realistic that is is another matter. Not only do you have to be able to do it while playing the whole chart you also have to have enough gas to do it along with the rest of your concert. Have you ever managed to play that figure during a rehearsal or even just practicing on your own?
It needs to be solid enough that it's just another note to you and you pretty well know you can hit it the majority of the time, otherwise it's almost certain you won't. Better to play it down an octave than to crash and burn and make a sonic mess trying to hit a note you don't own yet.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9033 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 10:33 am Post subject:
Just curious, what does your band director play and how experienced is s/he in working with school groups? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:58 pm Post subject:
Robert P wrote:
ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi wrote:
I am a senior in high school and I got a new song in jazz band called A Mis Abuelos, There is a high F in it, yes, sitting on top of four ledger lines. I can play it, but I can't perform it, I feel like there is a difference between the two. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can turn my high F into a nice crispy, consistent, and performable note within three to four weeks? That's when the concert is. I have plenty of time to practice, I just need some guidance now.
Is the video below the chart you're talking about? I hear the lead part on this going to an F#. I see versions of Arturo playing it. If it's the same one and you're playing this same arrangement it's a pretty demanding chart, I would assume it presents challenges to you besides hitting the high note.
Is the version your band is playing a half-step lower or did you mean to say F#? Below the college band video I played the lick I think you're referring to, worked it out by ear but it should be pretty close.
Re: your issue, when you say you can play it do you mean you can touch on it sometimes or can you really nail it? Can you play an octave scale up to it and back down again?
If you can play a big F (F#?) try to be aware of what's going on when you hit one. That's where you have to be set every time. It's going to be a tall order for you to get there in a short time span - you can't force it, it'll happen when it happens. Not only do you have to be able to do it while playing the whole chart you also have to have enough gas to do it along with the rest of your concert. Have you ever managed to play that figure during a rehearsal or even just practicing on your own?
It needs to be solid enough that it's just another note to you. If you're at the point where you don't pretty well know you can hit it the majority of the time, you won't. Better to play it down an octave than to crash and burn and make a sonic mess trying to hit a note you don't own yet.
Looks like the Ljubljana Academy band is playing the Michael Mossman chart. I found a high school band playing it with Michael Mossman's arrangement specified. I'd never heard of the piece before.
Joined: 14 Mar 2003 Posts: 936 Location: Greenville, South Carolina
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 7:54 pm Post subject:
3-4 weeks is likely not enough time. Don’t get stupid and start switching equipment. Get yourself on a practice routine that covers all the basics and don’t worry about the high notes. They are inevitable if you are playing correctly.
In my site I have some lessons of Susan Slaughter studying with Claude Gordon. They are kind of long and slow but if you work through them all you will learn several things as you get a bigger picture.
At the first lesson you will hear Susan asking Claude if she would be ready to play the Brandenburg later that season with the Saint-Louis Symphony. She already had her principal trumpet job when she started with Claude but you can hear her worry about high notes. That one of the reason she went to study with Claude. Claude’s advice was so smart in telling her to never agree to something you can’t play right now. Don’t get yourself in that situation. If you screw it all up that will be in the back of your mind when other challenges come up. You have to increase all your skills to the point you can relax and nail it. Anyone that can play a solid F knows they need to be able to play much higher. Thats why the range study material matters but only in a reasonable amount.
Do the best you can but you get to work on the future now.
3-4 weeks is likely not enough time. Don’t get stupid and start switching equipment. Get yourself on a practice routine that covers all the basics and don’t worry about the high notes. They are inevitable if you are playing correctly.
In my site I have some lessons of Susan Slaughter studying with Claude Gordon. They are kind of long and slow but if you work through them all you will learn several things as you get a bigger picture.
At the first lesson you will hear Susan asking Claude if she would be ready to play the Brandenburg later that season with the Saint-Louis Symphony. She already had her principal trumpet job when she started with Claude but you can hear her worry about high notes. That one of the reason she went to study with Claude. Claude’s advice was so smart in telling her to never agree to something you can’t play right now. Don’t get yourself in that situation. If you screw it all up that will be in the back of your mind when other challenges come up. You have to increase all your skills to the point you can relax and nail it. Anyone that can play a solid F knows they need to be able to play much higher. Thats why the range study material matters but only in a reasonable amount.
Do the best you can but you get to work on the future now.
Jeff
This is wonderful advice. I was fortunate to have a handful of lessons with Claude early in my career, set me on a good path to follow. You should listen to the lesson with Susan. I will.
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