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ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi
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Joined: 19 Dec 2023
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 Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:02 pm Post subject: dream job |
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My dream job is to professionally play the trumpet. I don't want to be poor though. If the best in the world is only worth near 5 million, your only hope at career success is to be the best in the world. How do I know if I am capable of being the best?
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jhahntpt
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Success is far more than just money. That's something we learn as we get older. If you're dream is to make MILLIONS of dollars with trumpet, your only hope is to turn into the Taylor Swift of trumpet playing.
You can make a more than decent living off of playing and teaching both at a high level. You don't need to sit principal in the NY Phil to make a good living with music either. If you can build connections and a good reputation in your area it's common enough to get calls for gigs and if you can build up a studio of private students that will help pay the bills.
The real questions that you need to ask yourself before committing to a life purely as a trumpet player (or any musician) are you willing to sacrifice several hours daily to practice? Are you willing to put yourself out there to make connections? Are you willing to put in the work to do it? Buy work, this could be taking low paying gigs, trying to get a gig with a local music store teaching lessons, offering (potentially free) assistance to local school directors to both hone your skills and make connections trying to acquire private students?
No one gets anywhere without taking steps, for me, I decided around the end of my undergrad that I did not want to pursue that life. I often wish I did, but I'm often glad I didn't.
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Brassnose
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Don’t use money as a scale. As I get older (and I was lucky to get a job that is pretty close to my now 30 year old dream of a job) I keep discovering that dream jobs can at times be extremely hard.
When I was about twenty, someone said to me „your job is your calling“ because I was so into it. This has both pluses and minuses.
The plus is that you live for your work and really don’t do anything else.
The minus is that you live for your work and really don’t do anything else.
You advance very fast and are up there with the frontrunners but you burn a lot of fuel on the way - too much at times (I know, I’ve done it).
Also consider that being the best is very tough - there is always someone in a hole that you didn’t check who turns out to be great at whatever you fancy a competition.
I’d reword the wish „to be the best“ to „to be as good as I can without falling apart when I am 27“. I can’t talk about professional musicians but in my field there are very (!) decent jobs (nice and motivated people, interesting work, good salaries, …) to be had without being a president of this or that or without being a Nobel Prize winner.
On top of this you’ll actually have some time for family and friends - how about that 
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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You have to create your own vacancy.
Music is an art.
Do what you love, and the money will follow.
Excellence is merely a starting point.
As a personal note, I feel sorry for anyone who's main goal in music is to get rich.
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Dayton
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2023 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do I know if I am capable of being the best? |
Practically every kid who picks up the trumpet has the potential to be "the best" at some aspect of trumpet playing (whatever "the best" means). Lack of lessons, lack of practice, lack of insights, lack of exposure...rapidly winnow that down. It is the same in most endeavors.
What aspect of trumpet playing do you want to be the best at? Are you still a student? Tell your teacher you want to play professionally and work with him/her on a plan to prepare you for success. Or find a teacher who can do that, particularly if the path you are interested in is not one your teacher has good insights into.
Compare yourself to your peers and to those who are great at what you want to be the best at. How big is the gap? How good is your plan? How determined are you? Are you willing to get up at 5 AM to practice? Are you willing to work hard to pay for lessons from teachers who can help you achieve your goal?
Some people are driven by money. But that drive often diminishes once you are comfortable. If you really want to be the best -- which is probably impossible to define/distinguish in an artistic context (despite the music competitions!) -- the passion for greatness is what needs to drive you. The love for music that is so great you could not imagine doing anything else. But even then, greatness and riches do not always go hand in hand, and some of that will be out of your control. |
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Destructo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2023 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do I know if I am capable of being the best? |
Given how young you likely are - join the best youth ensembles in your area.
Go to any public recitals given by local College music students.
Listen to recordings of great players at your age.
Get an idea for where you sit relative to the best players your age.
Ask your teacher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uchqkGe_oPQ&pp=ygUYc2VyZ2VpIG5ha2FyaWFrb3YgeW91bmcg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNt7i-BoN7c&pp=ygUYc2VyZ2VpIG5ha2FyaWFrb3YgeW91bmcg
The chances that you are going to be an internationally renowned player are very, very small. It's like making it to the SuperBowl. Decide if you would be happy with less than that.
Then decide whether you love playing enough that you'd still be doing it even if you weren'tgetting paid (there are many, many fine amateur and community musicians out there). Be honest with yourself.
There are significant advantages to pursuing a high-paying profession over music. The goal, for example, could be to earn $100-150k working 2-3 days a week. It's doable in some professions like law. It leaves you with plenty of time to play and to pay for lessons with the best teachers.
If "becoming the best" is not something you care much about, you just want to play and have money to spare, then make music your passion and fund it with a high-paying profession. You'll never get a recording deal with DG or have playing credits on a blockbuster film etc. But neither do 99% of people who set out to achieve that. At least you'll be playing and not always trying to scrounge together a living.
If there is a part of you that *needs* to *try* and be the best, to try and make it, then it could be the right choice, but you'd have to be willing to risk spending your life giving up a LOT in order to puruse that. Even the best players didn't neccessarily have great lives.
Best thing you could do is talk to your teacher. If you don't have one, you need one.
P.S. Most of the musicians I know, and I know some exceedingly[high calibre ones, either play professionally in an orchestra or if they freelance, earn a good chunk of their income from teaching... A lot of them hate it. All of them deserve so much better, but the performing arts is largely undervalued unfortuantely. |
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peanuts56
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | You have to create your own vacancy.
Music is an art.
Do what you love, and the money will follow.
Excellence is merely a starting point.
As a personal note, I feel sorry for anyone who's main goal in music is to get rich. |
That's right on the money.
A good friend of mine passed away some years back. He was a guitarist, a big loveable nerd and also ran a successful DJ business. Most of his living was made through the DJ business. He wasn't rich but was one of the happiest people I knew. I've never met anyone who loved their job more than he did.
I remember him telling me when he interviewed prospective DJ'S to work for his business, he had a series of questions he would ask. He said a red flag warning was when a DJ would talk about money first. He wouldn't hire anyone like that.
' |
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Tony Scodwell
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:19 pm Post subject: Best is relative |
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A really great young trumpet player recently moved to Las Vegas hoping to make it big. You know what he said the first day on his new job..."You want fries with that?"
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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homebilly
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Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2023 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Best is relative |
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| Tony Scodwell wrote: | | A really great young trumpet player recently moved to Las Vegas hoping to make it big. You know what he said the first day on his new job..."You want fries with that?"
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he has since gained 100lbs and has the loudest double F in the restaurant
thanks to the supersized fries
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OldSchoolEuph
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2023 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: dream job |
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| ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi wrote: | | How do I know if I am capable of being the best? |
By comparing your ability and attitude to the ideal of what they should be - and based on your other TH posts, right now the latter part does not look promising.
First, if your idea of success is purely making millions of dollars, not using music to influence the lives of others, forget this idea and get an MBA.
Your idea of the best is not a vision of the best trumpet players, it is a vision of celebrities who play trumpet. There is a big difference. The best in this art are those who have to turn away gigs all the time, because everyone who is anyone knows what they can do, that they can be relied upon to do it consistently, that they will do it while conducting themselves professionally.
The great professional trumpet players out there are often people you have never heard of if you are outside of this world. For example, Jeff Stockham, recently profiled in Historic Brass Today is not the first name that would come to mind, but he has all the work he can take plus more, he has the respect of everyone who has ever worked with him, and his reputation for reliable excellence is second to none. That is a great trumpeter - and a true professional.
Yes, "professional" in the strict sense means to get paid for doing that thing. But professional also refers to a manner of conduct. Those who are respected as the go-to pros are people who treat others with respect, who treat their employer with the respect to do as they are asked, without debate (or politely decline the gig if they cannot), who can be counted upon to deliver in every way every time, and who understand that it is what the audience hears that matters most, not branding, not recognition, not bling, and not bragging.
When you complain about being asked to not wear a watch - that is not a professional attitude. If the gig calls for not having any silver-plated horns (has happened) because they reflect too much light in the opinion of someone who is paying your tab, then you say "sure" and find a raw brass horn. In your case, if you wish to be seen as professional, take the watch off and keep your opinions to yourself (not publish them on global forum for all, including the person in question, to see).
When you focus on adding bling to your horn, but don't seem curious about how to improve your technique (at least nearly as much) that indicates you think flash and braggadocio matter more than how well you play. In that you are simply wrong. Typically, no one cares what your horn looks like. Unless it is disruptive visually, they only care what you sound like on it. Period.
When you offer harsh or blunt opinions with neither the sound logical evidence, nor the long established reputation to back them, that is not a professional image you put out there - especially if you just say "Plastic mutes are a stupid idea". FYI: Vincent Bach personally approved plastic mutes that were made for the Bach brand from the late 60s until just 2 years ago. A professional has the judgement to refrain from conflicting with the great masters without rock-solid evidence. It paints you in a way that will not form a "hey, we should hire this guy" feeling.
A professional learns the hows and whys of the art - such as music theory. Stating "Who the heck decided that a double sharp was necessary and not confusing?" shows the world a lack of understanding of theory, and harmonic structure. Sure, doubles suck for players - never met anyone who liked them - but anyone who considers themselves a pro not only knows they must, but is ready to, contend with them at any time. Asking why they are there is a clear sign of an amateur.
When you said "If you're good at something, never do it for free.", you pretty much showed us where your mindset is. If you do not understand playing for the pure pleasure of it, or the joy of seeing your playing move another person, you have missed the point and for that reason alone will never be among the best.
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Brassnose
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 12:05 am Post subject: |
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Ron, that post above is excellent - working as a pro in any (!) field with significant competition works the way you describe it. It really doesn’t matter if it’s music or anything else; the wrong attitude will be detrimental to a successful career (even the MBA referred to above  ).
To the OP: I am in a high competition job but never made it to the top top. Lately I have come to realize that a large chunk of this is because I didn’t focus enough on some things at the right times, I didn’t network enough, I wasn’t always diplomatic enough, I didn’t travel enough to showcase our work at every graveyard there is in the world, etc. So, you realize it’s not about the actual quality of the work (in your would-be case trumpet playing) but it is about the things around it.
In spite of all this I also did a few things right and have a nice, at times very challenging, job, a steady income, and time for music and family and friends. Nowadays this is more important to me than being the famous guy. But it’s true, I definitely don’t make millions, not even close 
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abontrumpet
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 6:49 am Post subject: Re: dream job |
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| ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi wrote: | | I don't want to be poor though. |
Bad news. Being poor is a real possibility. If you are good at anything else, get a degree in that (read Destructo's advice, big +1).
| kehaulani wrote: | | Do what you love, and the money will follow. |
This is a romantic notion, but simply not guaranteed. I know buckets of great musicians who love it and who are struggling. I know buckets of not-so-great musicians who still believe this notion, unfortunately. But, as peanuts56 pointed out, music does offer a rich social life and if you truly love it (not for the money) then you might enjoy job satisfaction. That being said, many make great money and are still not satisfied in their current position.
| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | By comparing your ability and attitude to the ideal of what they should be - and based on your other TH posts, right now the latter part does not look promising. |
Lots of gatekeeping in this post, I promise, not all of us are this angry. You can enjoy bling, complain about conductors and double-sharps, etc. I assume you're young, you'll figure out what's important down the line. Just be on time, prepared, and nice to your colleagues. If you're insanely good, or have tenure, you don't even need to be that nice to your colleagues (kidding, mostly).
| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | When you said "If you're good at something, never do it for free.", you pretty much showed us where your mindset is. |
If you're good, then you should absolutely not play for free unless it's a favor for a friend. You should not lose money to perform a job. |
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Trumpjerele
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote:
When you said "If you're good at something, never do it for free.", you pretty much showed us where your mindset is.
If you're good, then you should absolutely not play for free unless it's a favor for a friend. You should not lose money to perform a job |
With that mentality the bebop style would never have developed.
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OldSchoolEuph
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 7:56 am Post subject: Re: dream job |
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| abontrumpet wrote: | | If you're good, then you should absolutely not play for free unless it's a favor for a friend. You should not lose money to perform a job. |
In a labor-management dynamic, this is certainly a valid argument, but as a way to direct one's life, it is a recipe for lost opportunity.
Music is the physical manifestation as pressure waves in an atmosphere, of the emotional energy behind it. Pressure deltas convey energy, but it is the coherence, the meaningful interaction of the frequencies of that energy distribution that impact something other than simply the tympanic membrane and the stimulation of the cochlear nerve. The net effect alters the personality, the complex set of neural interactions that make us self-aware and something more than a machine.
Music is the physical transmission of emotional energy to those who receive it by hearing it and are moved, not physically, but in whatever the soul is, by this phenomena, the physical quantification of which in no way begins to represent the true impact of.
Music contains energy - we have all felt it. The music we make is the synthesis of the emotions of the composer, the emotions of the conductor (if any), the emotions of the designer of the instruments and the craftsmen/women who made them, and, at least for those not guided exclusively by this perspective, the emotions of the player. When the player is going through the motions without investing his/her own soul in the result - seeking only compensation for manual labor performed without personal investiture - the fragments of the souls of the others behind that music, the composer, the designer, the craftspeople, and the other musicians, are blocked and lost in that instance. It ceases to be music.
If you go through the motions, and I am not speaking necessarily to the OP, but have no interest in anything other than money for half-____ physical effort, please find another way to eek out a living. Do not disappoint those who look to music to recharge the essence of their being, because your lack of personal contribution, negating that of others, will rob them of what they seek.
If you cannot find joy in effecting the lives of others emotionally, even if it not only fails to pay well, but maybe costs, then you do not understand the true benefit of music, or what it means to have actually meant something to humanity by your brief existence in this world.
It is just a happy coincidence that those who understand that last sentence not only have meaningful lives, but will be recognized often, and rewarded monetarily as well, for what they contribute. Those who will do anything without personal commitment for a dollar are ultimately seen for who and what they are, and enjoy none of the rewards that actually matter.
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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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TrumpetMD
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| abontrumpet wrote: | | Lots of gatekeeping in this post, I promise, not all of us are this angry. You can enjoy bling, complain about conductors and double-sharps, etc. I assume you're young, you'll figure out what's important down the line. Just be on time, prepared, and nice to your colleagues. |
Very good post by abontrumpet.
| ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi wrote: | | How do I know if I am capable of being the best? |
I don't know if there's a simple answer. We all start out wanting to be the best. And as we get older, we modify our goals based on our specific strengths and weaknesses.
For me personally, I started out as a music major in college, wanting to be the best. But as reality crept in, I went in a different direction, making music more of a "hobby" instead of a "vocation".
I'll add that having a well-paying non-musical job gives you the freedom do to whatever you want musically. I play about 50 gigs a year in a jazz trio where all of us have non-music careers. My personal advice is to work hard (get a teacher, practice, learn), be the kind of person that people want to hire (humble, reliable, prepared, supportive), and have a back-up plan (computer science, business, medicine, etc.).
Mike
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 8:28 am Post subject: |
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"Do what you love and the money will follow" is an ideal, an aspiration. I pity anyone who is naive enough to believe it a certitude. A metaphorical parallel may be, "You don't always get what you pay for but you almost don't get what you don't pay for". Belief in yourself is fundamental.
But I believe if you really love it, and are truly talented, and know how to adapt and capitalize on shifting situations, you will not starve. "It's not what you know, it's how you use what you know."
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Craig Swartz
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 8:35 am Post subject: Re: dream job |
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| ramado24@clarkston.k12.mi wrote: | | How do I know if I am capable of being the best? |
Being "The Best" by whose opinion???
Quite a subjective question- if you can be "The Best" you are able to be, that's likely far enough. I have a number of friends and colleague about my same age. who were great players in their own right. They have completely given up playing for one reason or another, almost like playing trumpet was a job and not enjoyable. I pity people like that, I can't imagine not playing the instrument, even after 60 years of it.
If you can't be The Best, what next? Your email sig appears that you are a teacher. Are you attempting to be The Best at that as well?
Good luck. |
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 10:53 am Post subject: Re: dream job |
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| TrumpetMD wrote: | I don't know if there's a simple answer. We all start out wanting to be the best. And as we get older, we modify our goals based on our specific strengths and weaknesses
I'll add that having a well-paying non-musical job gives you the freedom do to whatever you want musically. |
Yes! +1 to the whole post.
| OldSchoolEuph wrote: | | In a labor-management dynamic, this is certainly a valid argument, but as a way to direct one's life, it is a recipe for lost opportunity. |
Sure, I can get behind that. Don't view everything as a transaction, generous spirit, etc. That being said, the "best" are charging premium prices for their services, as they should.
| Trumpjerele wrote: | | With that mentality the bebop style would never have developed. |
A fair rebuttal to my statement, I appreciate the sentiment. However, I would argue that those were more a competitive exchange of ideas than an entertainment service provided to the people by a venue (as well as functioning like an open audition). It was an informal "music-school." In music school you often pay/lose money to engage in a 4 year "jam-session"/exchange of ideas (similar to how artists might gather at a cafe to chat and develop ideas).
All this is to say: be generous, but undervaluing your services do nothing for the music community.
| kehaulani wrote: | | "Do what you love and the money will follow" is an ideal, an aspiration. I pity anyone who is naive enough to believe it a certitude. |
But many do and so it must be qualified. Thank you for elaborating in your subsequent post. |
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Seymor B Fudd
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:18 am Post subject: |
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The posts of above are a sheer delight to read. Thanks a lot for taking the time to write such eloquent and thoughtful, posts!
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onlyson
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2023 10:15 am Post subject: |
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When I was in high school I believed that I wanted to be a professional trumpet player. I wasn't quite sure what that would mean, but I felt that playing in the army band system would be a good start. Shortly before I left for boot camp, my friends took me out bar hopping, and I heard a band and they were playing a Cars tune and I was hooked. I would shortly come to realize, at least in my own mind, that as a trumpet player I would always be a sideman. So when I got to my duty station in Germany a year later, I bought a guitar and learned to play that as well.
Long story short, for the last 30+ years I have been leading my own band as a singer, guitarist, trumpet player (in that order). If you want to make a living as a performing musician, there is a pecking order. Singers make the most money. Especially if they play piano. Then come piano players, guitar, bass, drums. Followed by sax and then trumpet. Violinists can do well too. Everybody teaches. If you can secure a position in the school system, all the better.
So learn to sing. Start with 60 songs. Learn piano and/or guitar. Buy a truck and a P.A. system and become a band leader. Don't be a dick. Hustle. Oh, and one last thing: Marry well. Good luck!
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