Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 12:58 pm Post subject: Correct Vertical Compression Method?
Hello All. I have been doing a lot of reading on how to incorporate a vertical compressed embouchure, & as a result, I put together a list if you will, of the steps to produce this type of embouchure in simplistic form. Can you experts (that is those that do use a vertical compressed embouchure) review what I've written? I apologize as I don't mean to plagiarize anyone's writing or work. This is just for me. Thank you.
Compression Based Embouchure
Set the lips for the embouchure to just slightly touch; not squeezed together, & yet not open. (This is a Closed Aperture).
Conversely, pushing the tongue between the lips (an Open Aperture), is going to produce an airy sound & limit range & endurance.
The fallacy of high note playing is that high notes are produced by tightening the corners more & making visible embouchure adjustments & changes. Extreme high range is not produced with tighter corners.
Rather, high range is produced with vertical compression, that is, lip to lip compression. The two primary compression based embouchures are Stevens-Costello and Maggio, used by most scream players.
This is achieved by compressing the lower lip upward, & adjusting the point of contact between the lips so that the lower lip moves further back & up, against the upper lip.
This moves the aperture progressively back into the soft flesh on the back of the upper lip.
The corners are held firm throughout this compression method by holding everything steady, so there is no apparent movement in the corners as the player moves up through their range.
In order to play higher, the air column also has to be compressed more.
This is achieved by pulling in (compressing) the muscles below the navel & keeping the stomach relaxed.
Via the vertical compression method, the lower lip is manipulated in the mouthpiece to compress the air column & speed the air column velocity.
That means faster air velocity, not more air.
In a compression embouchure to develop range, you need to develop the muscles that control the lower lip.
Particularly, they are the muscles that raise the center of the lower lip, and keep it locked into position so it can resist the high speed air columns caused by greater compression of the air column.
Those muscles are located primarily in the chin area, & are well developed by scream players.
They are the frown muscles, because the frown muscles support the lower lip.
Frowning pushes lower lip up toward the top lip via these muscles,, resulting in lip compression, & doesn't tense up the top lip.
Frowning also pulls the corners down, causing the corners to stay & be firm.
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3309 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Correct Vertical Compression Method?
You have probably seen some of my 'embouchure thoughts', so I'm going to only comment on the following items
jvf1095 wrote:
...
In order to play higher, the air column also has to be compressed more.
This is achieved by pulling in (compressing) the muscles below the navel & keeping the stomach relaxed.
Via the vertical compression method, the lower lip is manipulated in the mouthpiece to compress the air column & speed the air column velocity.
That means faster air velocity, not more air. ...
----------------------------
I think more clarification is needed about what body parts you include in the 'air column'.
I think a major function of lip compression is controlling the resistance of air flow through the lips - not directly the compressing of any air. The control of resistance can be a factor in adjusting the air pressure inside the mouth.
For 'faster air', I think that many people do have that feeling when blowing high pressure air through a lip passage that gives high resistance. And yes, the individual 'molecules of air' that are going through the lips probably are moving faster, but the quantity of 'molecules per second' (the flow) might be less. So I agree with you but choose different wording. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
I think a major function of lip compression is controlling the resistance of air flow through the lips - not directly the compressing of any air.
The major function of lip compression is to control the frequency of the tone. Resistance is of no direct concern.
Quote:
The control of resistance can be a factor in adjusting the air pressure inside the mouth.
No, it can't. Flow resistance there (at the lip aperture) limits air flow and reduces efficiency, but it is not a factor of air pressure inside the mouth. We adjust the pressure by exhalation effort.
Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 10:18 pm Post subject: Re: Correct Vertical Compression Method?
jvf1095 wrote:
Hello All. I have been doing a lot of reading on how to incorporate a vertical compressed embouchure, & as a result, I put together a list if you will, of the steps to produce this type of embouchure in simplistic form. Can you experts (that is those that do use a vertical compressed embouchure) review what I've written? I apologize as I don't mean to plagiarize anyone's writing or work. This is just for me. Thank you.
Compression Based Embouchure
Set the lips for the embouchure to just slightly touch; not squeezed together, & yet not open. (This is a Closed Aperture).
Conversely, pushing the tongue between the lips (an Open Aperture), is going to produce an airy sound & limit range & endurance.
The fallacy of high note playing is that high notes are produced by tightening the corners more & making visible embouchure adjustments & changes. Extreme high range is not produced with tighter corners.
Rather, high range is produced with vertical compression, that is, lip to lip compression. The two primary compression based embouchures are Stevens-Costello and Maggio, used by most scream players.
This is achieved by compressing the lower lip upward, & adjusting the point of contact between the lips so that the lower lip moves further back & up, against the upper lip.
This moves the aperture progressively back into the soft flesh on the back of the upper lip.
The corners are held firm throughout this compression method by holding everything steady, so there is no apparent movement in the corners as the player moves up through their range.
In order to play higher, the air column also has to be compressed more.
This is achieved by pulling in (compressing) the muscles below the navel & keeping the stomach relaxed.
Via the vertical compression method, the lower lip is manipulated in the mouthpiece to compress the air column & speed the air column velocity.
That means faster air velocity, not more air.
In a compression embouchure to develop range, you need to develop the muscles that control the lower lip.
Particularly, they are the muscles that raise the center of the lower lip, and keep it locked into position so it can resist the high speed air columns caused by greater compression of the air column.
Those muscles are located primarily in the chin area, & are well developed by scream players.
They are the frown muscles, because the frown muscles support the lower lip.
Frowning pushes lower lip up toward the top lip via these muscles,, resulting in lip compression, & doesn't tense up the top lip.
Frowning also pulls the corners down, causing the corners to stay & be firm.
Maybe they're describing how it feels to them but it definitely isn't what I think of when going up in range.
The notion of "lip to lip compression" I regard as just wrong. If someone tries to adopt this from the above description I think they're just going to be working against themselves with improper mechanics. Do you feel like it works for you? What's the current top of your range that you can hit with decent sound?
I think they're confusing or mislabeling the tension bearing in on the mouthpiece with/as lip-to-lip compression. There's a subtly increased tension of the reed that occurs as the result of both subtly transferred muscular tension and mp pressure as you go both/either higher/louder but not slamming your lips together - the reed has to be free to vibrate the way it needs to and the aperture has to be able to change.
Something it took me a long time to realize was that the actual flesh reed that's formed when playing has to be largely relaxed when first setting the mp and initiating the attack. For me there has to be just a little tension when first setting the mouthpiece to find the "pocket" but then relaxed to set the surrounding muscles. As far as being set apart or together ~shrug~ what's important is that you're moving air, the teeth are apart the right amount, the lips are in the airway over the edges of the teeth and are at the right alignment to each other, the pressure amount and distribution is right, the mouth cavity/tongue is at the right level, the tension of the buzzing surface has to be at the right place to allow the buzz to happen at whatever pitch you initiate and the upper and lower halves of the reed be able to come together the right way at the instant the buzz initiates. When you take breaths while playing without removing the mouthpiece pretty sure most people's lips separate some and they're still able to continue to attack notes. For me if my lips are so far apart that a buzz won't initiate the mouthpiece doesn't feel right, I'd never set it that way.
Try playing say a nice solid third space C - note how the muscles of your lips/embouchure are, that's how they need to be set for that pitch at that volume. Then try playing it blastissimo - again, that's how they need to be set. Again on a top of staff G and a high C - that's where they need to be. If they're not where they need to be you'll have a splattered attack or airball altogether until the lips get to the right place. I believe all the "I suddenly can't play as high as I used to be able to" complaints are because they fell into the right setting but were never really aware of these elements and then they fall out of them, not fully understanding how they got there in the first place.
I don't think of corners at all - they do whatever they do. Some people preach corners, specifically focusing on "tight/firm corners" is nothing but counterproductive for me, it impedes other elements of the embouchure. I think of the factors I mentioned above, any tension I think of is tension over the entire embouchure. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:40 am; edited 3 times in total
This technique sounds an awful lot like what is described in Earl D. Irons' Twenty-Seven Groups of Exercises.
Quote:
"To play the extreme low tones, it will be necessary to turn the part of the lower lip in the mouthpiece over slightly and away from the upper lip. If this procedure seems difficult, the student may try protruding the lower jaw slightly. This cannot be accomplished in one day, but the student will be able to do the trick in due time.
For the high tones it will be necessary to pull the lower lip slightly in towards the upper lip. This procedure will necessitate the application of a little more power. The movement of the lower lip is all done insider the mouthpiece; there is no shifting. The corners of the mouth are always kept firmly against the teeth, not pulled back intentionally."
This is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. At this point I'm trying to find what works for me, & different takes on this gives me something to try & to think about.
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Correct Vertical Compression Method?
Robert P wrote:
Maybe they're describing how it feels to them but it definitely isn't what I think of when going up in range.
The notion of "lip to lip compression" I regard as just wrong. If someone tries to adopt this from the above description I think they're just going to be working against themselves with improper mechanics.
And a contra view point for balance:
Quote:
Factors for a dynamic embouchure
Posted on April 11, 2015 by Clint McLauglin
Lip tension, tongue arch and air speed are great for changing pitch in a particular register. But lip compression is needed inorder to change registers. Jeanne has already pointed out that arching the back of the tongue causes headaches and blackouts. So please remember to use a forward arch.
A combination of 6 things are NEEDED to play trumpet well. Close lip setting (aperture) + mouthpiece pressure (just enough to make a seal) + lip compression + lip tension + tongue arch (forward) & Air (speed and support).
These 6 points control the range of the instrument. There are many variations available in how these can be added together to play any one note.
It is possible to play a double high c with a close setting and compression only. Stevens’ static exercises are played that way. Adding some mpc pressure to that can flesh out the notes yet these can be done with almost no tension.
On the other hand lots of people play high c with an open lip setting lots of lip tension and mouthpiece pressure. With the lips pinned open there is no compression. This is tiring because of muscle fatigue from the tension and impaired bloodflow through the lips caused by mouthpiece pressure.
Inorder to move from the open setting to a closed setting the player has to learn to relax the tension and back off on the mouthpiece pressure. Compression works far better than tension so both range and endurance improve.
Now to obtain a big full sound you need a balance of lip setting, compression, tension, mpc pressure, tongue arch and air usage. This balance changes by register. For example the low register needs more air mass to fill the bigger aperture but less air speed or pressure. The lips require little tension or compression. I have found that people can put the close setting to real use quicker by learning to relax the chops.
Trust me we all put some tension back in as we ascend. I have to constantly remind people (in the upper register) to relax some and take the workload off of the lips.
There is natural muscle tone (tension), there is loose and flabby, and there are stages of tightness (tension). You have certain levels or amounts of tension that you rely on for each register. (Some change tension every note, others by the difference in the harmonic series and still others by octaves.)
The dependence on tension, where and how much you change is based on how you use the other playing factors. Lip compression (lip against lip not facial or corner tension), lip setting (how close they are before the airstream starts), mouthpiece pressure (this can easily seal off the aperture an open setting needs 5 X as much as a close setting). Added to this is the way you use your air. In my case because of a close lip setting I use the normal resting facial tension on the entire 1st set of notes in the harmonic series (Low F# to low C). The next set (low C# to second line G) uses a little tension but far less than open aperture players do on low F#. In fact the 3rd set (second line G# to middle C) uses less tension than lots of people start with on Low F#.
Tension is tiring. It also adds stiffness to the lips and prevents a free vibration. Added stiffness is how tension helps to play higher notes but it restricts and limits the ease of tone production of the mid and low register.
One way to judge your tension level is to see how much of the face is involved. Under high C it should be completely limited to the lips and corners (1/2 ” away from the lips). I see a great many players who are tense in the cheeks (this robs you of endurance) and neck (this hurts your tone). Over high C I have tension in the area around the lips going out in all directions about 2 inches or so. My cheeks and neck never get tense.
Lip compression is the act of 1 lip pressing against the other. Like pinching the thumb and forefinger together. Inorder to do this with your hand the thumb must be touching the finger (there can be no air space between them), It works the same way with the lips.
There are 5 main ways that this lip compression is obtained.
1. The entire chop setting is drawn toward the center. Corners pulled in and top and bottom lip pulled together. Like the drawstring example in the Farkas book or the making a fist in Jacoby’s book or the diagram in Callet’s book. Three different embouchures that all use the same method of lip compression.
2. Using the muscles of the chin to push the lower lip into the top lip. This creates a knot of muscle at the chin and it moves the center portion of the lower lip.
3. Using the muscles of a frown to compress the lips together. The Roy Roman bulldog face. A frown will pull the top lip down slightly as it pushes the center part of the bottom lip upward.
4. Using the jaw to assist register changes. This is the way Roy Stevens taught. He started with a very open jaw (tooth) position. That way he could bring the lips in toward each other in more compression by moving the jaw upward. (This is fine if you make sure to keep the teeth apart at all times.)
The interesting part is these techniques work with more than 1 embouchure setting. (The lips do have to touch.) I gave examples of 3 different embouchure settings for #1 but that applies for all 4 types of compression above.
5. Is done by use of a pucker. The compression is partially created by the lips in their pucker and partly by the mouthpiece holding them in place. This can only be used in 2 of the 4 main embouchure systems.
Using Lip Compression is described in several books
Stevens (out of print), The Art of Brass Playing,Jakes’ Method, Brass Playing Mechanism and Technic, The Encyclopedia of the Pivot System, Super Chops (only 2 pages of the book), New Approach to Trumpet Playing, Trumpet Isometrics (about 2 pages), Sail the 7 C’s (a page or 2 of text but has good exercises), The Psychology of Cornet and Trumpet Playing,
The No Nonsense Trumpet From A-Z & Trumpet FAQ’s (my books) (They are different from other books in that they are 90% text explanations and 10% exercises.
Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Correct Vertical Compression Method?
Destructo wrote:
Robert P wrote:
Maybe they're describing how it feels to them but it definitely isn't what I think of when going up in range.
The notion of "lip to lip compression" I regard as just wrong. If someone tries to adopt this from the above description I think they're just going to be working against themselves with improper mechanics.
And a contra view point for balance:
Quote:
Factors for a dynamic embouchure
Posted on April 11, 2015 by Clint McLauglin
Lip tension, tongue arch and air speed are great for changing pitch in a particular register. But lip compression is needed inorder to change registers. Jeanne has already pointed out that arching the back of the tongue causes headaches and blackouts. So please remember to use a forward arch.
A combination of 6 things are NEEDED to play trumpet well. Close lip setting (aperture) + mouthpiece pressure (just enough to make a seal) + lip compression + lip tension + tongue arch (forward) & Air (speed and support).
These 6 points control the range of the instrument. There are many variations available in how these can be added together to play any one note.
It is possible to play a double high c with a close setting and compression only. Stevens’ static exercises are played that way. Adding some mpc pressure to that can flesh out the notes yet these can be done with almost no tension.
On the other hand lots of people play high c with an open lip setting lots of lip tension and mouthpiece pressure. With the lips pinned open there is no compression. This is tiring because of muscle fatigue from the tension and impaired bloodflow through the lips caused by mouthpiece pressure.
Inorder to move from the open setting to a closed setting the player has to learn to relax the tension and back off on the mouthpiece pressure. Compression works far better than tension so both range and endurance improve.
Now to obtain a big full sound you need a balance of lip setting, compression, tension, mpc pressure, tongue arch and air usage. This balance changes by register. For example the low register needs more air mass to fill the bigger aperture but less air speed or pressure. The lips require little tension or compression. I have found that people can put the close setting to real use quicker by learning to relax the chops.
Trust me we all put some tension back in as we ascend. I have to constantly remind people (in the upper register) to relax some and take the workload off of the lips.
There is natural muscle tone (tension), there is loose and flabby, and there are stages of tightness (tension). You have certain levels or amounts of tension that you rely on for each register. (Some change tension every note, others by the difference in the harmonic series and still others by octaves.)
The dependence on tension, where and how much you change is based on how you use the other playing factors. Lip compression (lip against lip not facial or corner tension), lip setting (how close they are before the airstream starts), mouthpiece pressure (this can easily seal off the aperture an open setting needs 5 X as much as a close setting). Added to this is the way you use your air. In my case because of a close lip setting I use the normal resting facial tension on the entire 1st set of notes in the harmonic series (Low F# to low C). The next set (low C# to second line G) uses a little tension but far less than open aperture players do on low F#. In fact the 3rd set (second line G# to middle C) uses less tension than lots of people start with on Low F#.
Tension is tiring. It also adds stiffness to the lips and prevents a free vibration. Added stiffness is how tension helps to play higher notes but it restricts and limits the ease of tone production of the mid and low register.
One way to judge your tension level is to see how much of the face is involved. Under high C it should be completely limited to the lips and corners (1/2 ” away from the lips). I see a great many players who are tense in the cheeks (this robs you of endurance) and neck (this hurts your tone). Over high C I have tension in the area around the lips going out in all directions about 2 inches or so. My cheeks and neck never get tense.
Lip compression is the act of 1 lip pressing against the other. Like pinching the thumb and forefinger together. Inorder to do this with your hand the thumb must be touching the finger (there can be no air space between them), It works the same way with the lips.
There are 5 main ways that this lip compression is obtained.
1. The entire chop setting is drawn toward the center. Corners pulled in and top and bottom lip pulled together. Like the drawstring example in the Farkas book or the making a fist in Jacoby’s book or the diagram in Callet’s book. Three different embouchures that all use the same method of lip compression.
2. Using the muscles of the chin to push the lower lip into the top lip. This creates a knot of muscle at the chin and it moves the center portion of the lower lip.
3. Using the muscles of a frown to compress the lips together. The Roy Roman bulldog face. A frown will pull the top lip down slightly as it pushes the center part of the bottom lip upward.
4. Using the jaw to assist register changes. This is the way Roy Stevens taught. He started with a very open jaw (tooth) position. That way he could bring the lips in toward each other in more compression by moving the jaw upward. (This is fine if you make sure to keep the teeth apart at all times.)
The interesting part is these techniques work with more than 1 embouchure setting. (The lips do have to touch.) I gave examples of 3 different embouchure settings for #1 but that applies for all 4 types of compression above.
5. Is done by use of a pucker. The compression is partially created by the lips in their pucker and partly by the mouthpiece holding them in place. This can only be used in 2 of the 4 main embouchure systems.
Using Lip Compression is described in several books
Stevens (out of print), The Art of Brass Playing,Jakes’ Method, Brass Playing Mechanism and Technic, The Encyclopedia of the Pivot System, Super Chops (only 2 pages of the book), New Approach to Trumpet Playing, Trumpet Isometrics (about 2 pages), Sail the 7 C’s (a page or 2 of text but has good exercises), The Psychology of Cornet and Trumpet Playing,
The No Nonsense Trumpet From A-Z & Trumpet FAQ’s (my books) (They are different from other books in that they are 90% text explanations and 10% exercises.
The reality of what happens inside the mouthpiece. Some of what Clint says sounds okay but there are assertions he makes that I don't see reflected in the video.
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