Trumpets and dents

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

Im wondering what fellow trumpet players believe about how dents effect the playability of a trumpet.Im speaking of dents in the tuning slide area where it bends around, not so much on the bell, which seem more cosmetic only; It seems to me that a dent in that area(Tuning crook) can kinda deaden how a horn feels/sounds.Would appreciate a few opinions on that.
Thanks

zaferis · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 6:37 am Post subject:

I don't like them anywhere.. any small dent bothers the crap out of me.
Affect on play? The closer to the receiver end of the trumpet the more impact it has. When we talk about the tension of the water key nut, the weight of the slide stop, a tone ring, heavy/lite valve caps, brass vs. nylon valve guides all having an impact on tone and feel (playability) then dents must.
A dent on the main tuning slide, on a valve slide -YES. On the bell, not so much.
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Andy Cooper · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:31 am Post subject:

I'll differ slightly, if you have a bell dent that involves a bell brace area, then yeah - it's a problem to me. Seems like it makes the blow a little harsher. Your tech will probably unsolder the brace at some point to remove the dent. If not I would ask them to re-solder.

There are dents and then there are dents.

cheiden · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:11 am Post subject:

I've been told that the section of the bell where it enters the valve block is particularly problematic in terms of affecting sound.
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LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

Thanks for the imput..I had just traded for this trumpet, which is a unique Olds trumpet with a tunable bell.They were made for only 2 years so they are pretty rare;They were discontinued after Shilke sued them!
The problem with this is the dents are in a spot where my tech could not reach, as the proper ball magnet would not fit in the receiver, so now it looks like
I have to have him pull it apart to get to the dents, and then solder it back..Nothing I anticipated when I traded for this horn!.
Also, there is no actual conventional tuning slide(only the tunable bell).If there was, these dents would be a breeze to fix.
Thats why Im asking opinions on dents and playability, which i`m very sure they effect.

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

I wish a trumpet playing tech would take a minute to chime in on this.

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

Does anybody else have the Olds tunable bell model?

Andy Del · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:05 pm Post subject:

Ronnman · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:36 pm Post subject:

LadFree Is stating that his Olds Trumpet does not have a removable slide. Similar to an Olds CHR trumpet. The leadpipe is one piece from the receiver to the valve block. A dent ball small enough to fit through the leadpipe venturi will not be large enough to remove any substantial dents. I believe the only way to remove the dents would be to unsolder the leadpipe and work dent balls from the opposite direction. I recently saw one on eBay with dents in this area and pondered how would one get to the dents.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134797850317

And every Olds Recording trumpet I ever saw, has a conventional-removable tuning slide.
Ron
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Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

Ronnman; That is exactly the horn I bought! The CHR, With the same description but on TH;
I traded a near mint Cannonball for it,and as you wondered about, my tech could not get to those dents.Now im going to have to remove the leadpipe and go at it from the opposite direction as you pointed out..Nothing I planned on doing when I made the trade of course.
Thanks Ronnman

spitvalve · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:45 pm Post subject:

A tuba player friend of mine told me about a professional tuba player he knew who had a big dent in the bell of his tuba, and after playing it for a long time, decided to get the dent removed. After the repair he didn't like the way the horn played so had his tech put the dent back in.
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Ronnman · Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:31 pm Post subject:

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

The dent is right at the corner(right where it bends) of where the Tuning slide would have been if it was a traditional trumpet.There are also slight dents along the leadpipe leading up to the dent area, but I dont believe those would effect playability?..The dent at the corner of the tuning slide area is about 1/2 inch in length and that one I feel deadens the horn. My thoughts are that a trumpet with a bell like this needs all the vibrancy it can get from the rest of the horn,and a bigger horn it might not be as critical;There is also a dent on the bottom of the leadpipe between the valve section and the "Tuning slide " area.
There is also slight red rot happening, and my tech pointed out a few holes
that have not broken through yet;He used a magnifier to point these out.These things were never mentioned by the guy,except the one dent and that a good tech could bang it out,as you saw in the description you saw.
I would not have made this trade if I knew all of the issues with this trumpet,
So we have to be careful about who we deal with.
Im not going to "Out"
the TH guy who Im talking about over the internet, but if your nervous about
making a deal with someone, you can PM me.

Ronnman · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:19 am Post subject:

I have seen the TH screen name of the person you bought the horn from. The name has a military reference of sorts. I would contact him regarding the red rot if it was not mentioned. Unfortunately it appears that the description on eBay is now blank. The red rot may not be a big problem unless it is where the dents are located. Did your tech check the red rot from the inside with a bore scope?

Regarding vibrancy, this horn may not ring like you want it to. I saw this you tube video from the late John Ruff comparing the Olds CHR and Reynolds ERA to other trumpets. I beleive this horn was created specifically for playing in the upper register, so getting a nice full tone in the middle register may be a challenge. See link below.
Ron

https://youtu.be/Jyr-DosEMbI?
_________________
Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

My tech called it the beginning of red rot..or pink rot were his words.
I get it about the horn not being a horn I would take to play anything
"Legit" in an Orchestra setting.I dont do that kind of playing anymore anyway.
I got it specifically for playing in over amplified salsa and rock type gigs.
I really think the dents take some of the vibrancy out. Im a pretty laid
back sort and at 70, dont really like any BS at this point of life..As im sure most
dont.
I did email the guy I traded with and he said the Cannonball I sent him needed cleaning!..Compared to having to remove the leadpipe to get dents out?
Give me a break..His last Email to me said Good bye Larry.
NOT COOL!

Ronnman · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 7:19 am Post subject:

LadFree said

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

Well thing is I had a good trade with him a few years back
where we were both happy, so I didnt think there would
be a problem. I even offered to pay his and my
shipping fees to trade back, and even asked if he had other
horns for sale;
His reply? (once again) Good bye Larry

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

Thanks Ronnman; Appreciate your advice!

chase1973 · Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:41 pm Post subject:

Here's a funny dent story. A top NYC session player, I apologize the name eludes me, possibly Bob McCoy, anyway, he was playing on a horn for many years which had a dent in the bell. One day, he decided to have it removed and took the horn to Giardinelli's for the dent removal. The next day, he came back to Giardinelli's and said, "Put the dent back!" He had the dent for so long, he got used to the way the horn played with it.

LadFree · Regular Member Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 57 Location: NY

Chase; Not impossible; I knew Bob and played with him a few times..Once before he had Bells Palsy and a few times after.He was a great guy and great player.When the palsy hit him, he would sound great and then minutes into the gig his corners would give out and he wasnt the same..Always very positive though,even when he
was hurting, and had great stories..He told me he had just recorded a solo on a disco hit, and was lamenting that more people heard him on that 1 song then the combined years of his big band days..One of the greats for sure!